OK....Tell me the truth

[encorepete]

I a newbie here. I have an encore 209x50 and a renegade 50. Neither is a flintlock. I have been thinking about building a rifle and have decided to build a flintlock. I've never shot one before, I'm the only ML nut in my group of hunting buddies. My buddies laugh at me all the time when I'm carrying one of my ML's hunting during the regular season. I have zero experience with flintlocks and have never built anything a self respecting bird would call a home, much less a firearm. I have 300.00 or less to spend. which ML kit will fit the price? How hard is it to build? Do kits function as well as factory bought guns? Obviously I don't want to have a bunch of problems. I have looked a the GPR, but thats about it.

 

[TwoShadows]

Are you satisfied with the preformance of the renegade? You can expect about the same performance from the flint[url] version....in[/url] my opinion. Learning how to properly install a flint and proper amount of priming powder would be the only difference.

A high quality flintlock will give the most pleasurable results. I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but the better quality riflegun will MUCH more likely bring you your money back if you decide the flint game isn't for you.

Shortest route I know to a properly made quality rifle is to buy an in-the-white rifle from someone like Jim Chambers or Tip Curtis and do the final finishing yourself. You of course know that you get what you pay for...and pay for what you get.

I have no idea what you would have to pay nowadays for a Thompson Center or equal quality. I just purchased another in-the-white rifle from Tip Curtis at Frontier Gun Shop in Tennessee....plunked down a grand....but I have a 44 inch barreled early York county 54 caliber. Pretty good looking piece of maple on it too. Colerain swamped barrel and L&R triggers...iron mounted.

 

[Birddog6]

From what you just discribed, you need look no further.

IMHO, the Lyman GPR is the best buy for the money in a cheap mass produced rifle.

Taking all into consideration of what you just said, it should do just fine. Keep in mine this is a Assembly kit, not a builders kit as some like to make it out to be. All you have to do is sand & finish the stock, blue or brown the metal & assemble it.

 

[Zonie]

Pete: Concerning kits: The kits produced by Lyman, CVA, Tompson Center, Dixie etc are basically their production guns which are about 90% finished. The only things remaining to be done is to make sure the lock fits properly, sand and finish the stock, sand and blue/brown the barrel and perhaps sand and polish the brass work.
The results are determined by how well you can do these things, but I will say that although they may take some time, they are not hard to do. In fact, if you take your time you can produce a much better rifle than the factory sells.
The only real negitive I've seen is that the prices of these kits are almost the same as the finished guns price.

As I only have a 2003 Dixie catalog my prices will most likely be low but the kits they list which fit your price and lock style are:

Pedersoli Kentucky Rifle kit: .45 or .50 cal 1:48 twistFlintlock $312. This is a fullstock style with a full Brass patchbox. Curved comb with a lot of drop in the stock.

DGW Hawken Rifle Kit: .50 cal 1:48 twist Flintlock $250/
This is a halfstock made by Investarms and appears to be the same as the Lyman Trade Gun.

Dixie doesn't list a GPR in flint but their precussion price is a little over $300.

IMO, Although they have an unbelieveable amount of stuff in their catalog which is the main reason I buy their catalog, Dixie has some of the highest prices around so look at what's available from other sources of supply.

 

[steved]

Hey Pete,

I don't think you will regret your decision to go flint. Once you get first "klatch" followed instantly by the "kaboom" you will be hooked. "To tell you the truth", there may come a time at the range or in the field when you get frustrated with the flintlock, especially as you are learning all of the nuances of the art. However, with experience and absorbtion of all of the excellent advice put forth in the forum, you will soon be passing along information to novice flinters. Regarding kits, if you are willing to expand your budget, check out the kits offered by the Track of the Wolf, Jim Chambers Flintlocks, Cabin Creek Muzzleloading. I've heard great things about them.

 

[Zonie]

The following is from an earlier post about kits. It may be of interest to you and others.

There are several good books on building a rifle.
I had built several CVA kits as well as a Thompson Center Hawken kit before stepping up to working on my first Penn Rifle. The book I used was "THE ART OF BUILDING THE PENNSYLVANIA LONGRIFLE" by Dave Ehrig, Dave Miller and Chuck Dixon (Dixie BO0622 $20.00). This book is available from almost any place which sells Rifle kits, or you could order it thru your local book store.
IMO it covers all you will need to know.
I'm sure some of the other books like "BUILDING THE KENTUCKY RIFLE" by J.R.Johnston (Dixie BO0385 $7.50) have their points as well, I just have not read them.

Although you didn't ask IMO there are two types of "kit s". The CVA, LYMAN, THOMPSON CENTER etc are vary easy to assemble. The main work envolved is minor cutting to get the lock and trigger to fit, some polishing of the trigger guard/butt plate etc., some stock sanding and applying the finish of your choice. You may add things like "thumb piece" and other escutcheons or inlays but on a halfstock they tend to look out of place.
The price is in the low to upper $200 s.

The other type of "kit " is what Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River, Dixie, and a host of others furnish. All sell what I call semi-finished stocks with the barrel channel and ramrod hole, lock inlet and trigger inlet cut and with the remainder "close" to finished form. For a fee they will install the breechplug, install the underlugs, and mill the sight dovetails in the barrel. (I recommend this for first time builders).
ALL parts will require filing, drilling, sanding, polishing and final fitting. Most importantly this type of "kit" requires a LOT of time and even more patients. IF your in a hurry to get it done, IMO this is not the kind of kit you would feel comfortable with. You really don't need Power tools but a electric drill, a belt sander, a bench grinder and a Dremal type tool are handy if you have them. Have a understanding of drilling and tapping threads and FILING.
With this type of kit you can make a truly custom rifle (length of pull, type of trigger, barrel weight and caliber, some stock cast etc).

I can only speak for myself (and I have built quite a few guns) but the first kind of kit will take me at most 20 hours (most of this is in stock finishing and barrel browning). The second kind of kit will take me a minimum of 120 hours. (I tend to put a lot of inlays and carvings on mine and this can increase my total time to 250 to 350+ hours.) (Beats watching TV!!!). The price for this type of "kit" ranges from about $400-$700 depending on the amount of machining you have done and the type and grade of wood you choose.
Just remember, even though the second type takes a lot of time and money, if you take your time you can produce an heirloom which will last and be appreciated for the next hundred years or more.

 

[encorepete]

Well, my budget will not allow the purchase of a thousand dollar "real" flintlock, nor will my marriage, lol. I don't know if it is even for me or not, yet. I'm just worried because I see a lot of posts about the GPR and problems with the kit. My problem is that if there is something wrong, I wont know it until my rifle doesn't work HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! I have also seen the finsihed rifles in the photo section and the GPR in there is VERY NICE!!! I'm hoping that if I take my time, I can turn out something similar. Add to that the pride from doing it myself. I am thinking that for my first, I should stay away from the expensive kits and all the drilling, tapping, etc, and stick with the Lyman kit. Thanks for the help, now can anyone suggest a place to buy one.....I know about mid south shooter supply at 250.00 for the flintlock in .54 caliber. I will let you know when and if I get it. Maybe we can work on her together. Pete

 

[Zonie]

Pete: At's what weer har fer. Jus look at all the fun ole Spot Shooter is a havin! Ya he whimpers like he's hurt one day but the next day he's back jus as proud as a mother cat with a basket full of kittens.
Ah suspect whan he's finished with his GPR he'll start droppin his change into a Mason Jar fer another gun ta build.
Why jus missin all o them tarrable shows whats on the TV is worth a lot! ::

 

All of the above,,

mid-south is the best bet.

good luck,it's easy,,you'll have more help than ya need,and have fun (cept spot's scared!)( poor guy cain't touch sandpaper what he's gotta take a picture,post it on the net and ask if it's wipe right or left.) If ya mess up ya can fix it! That's a kit. An easy fun way too learn They shoot good "out of the box"!