Oh no, the obligatory "Help me buy my first rifle" post!

[tony ennis]

Yeah. Sorry.

I'll pay in advance by telling a story.

Some time ago, my son bought a Pedersoli flintlock pistol kit. He built it, looks great. We found some local black powder shooters (KY's Wilderness Rangers) and they invited us to attend one of their shoots.

So this weekend, we did. We arrived and were immediately greeted by a bunch guys in period garb. We didn't know what to think! We (me, my son Justin, and 2 of his pals) were immediately made to feel at home.

About a dozen Wilderness Rangers were there that day. That had beautiful flints - half of them were heavily striped... tiger maple? There wasn't a percussion cap to be seen.

We didn't even get through introductions before these guys were shoving rifles into our hands! "Here! Try this!" We told them we had no experience in shooting black powder so they taught us how to load and operate the rifles... after basic range rules and safety instruction.

My first surprise I got immediately. BP is loud! I thought it would be a WOOOSH! Haha, no.
I got my 2nd surprise learning about "set triggers.' I think all 4 of us shot before we were ready. Seriously light trigger action! I had no clue it was possible for a heavy spring to be operated by such a tiny amount of force.

About that time the club had their Thanksgiving Turkey Shoot, a 5-shot shooting contest at 50 yards or so. I was impressed with the club's overall marksmanship.

They taught my son how to load and shoot his pistol. We couldn't hit jack with it

In the mean-time, other members were STILL handing us their rifles to shoot.

They were the nicest people you could imagine. We came with empty hands and they treated us like old friends.

Then, as it was their Thanksgiving shoot, they brought out a ton of food including home made chili and corned beef and fed us. They had a fire going with put some coffee on. I indulged using my period Starbucks insulated mug. It was really good coffee.

There are two short videos on my lame blog.

-=-=-=-=-

Now, this flintlock thing was my son's dealio. I was attending as an excuse to spend time with him. Haha man did I have a great time and get totally sucked in. So now it looks like we're having a Flintlock Christmas.

My son Justin wants a winter project so he's looking at a kit. I have about a zillion projects and don't need another; I'm looking for a rifle that's ready to shoot. This has the advantage of allowing him to take his time on the build since we can share my rifle.

Here are the parameters of the gun quest: We're looking for generally similar rifles except he wants a kit. We both want double-set triggers. We're both looking for long rifles, not carbines. Flintlocks only. 45 cal - we don't hunt. I'll do a 50 if there are compelling reasons, but I've fired M1 Garands and Springfields and I can say I don't like a heavy-recoil rifle. I like the idea of an adjustable rear sight. I don't need fancy wood on this gun. I don't have a lot of money, so I need a rifle that's going to last me for a few years.

So what are some reasonable bang-for-the-buck rifles that meet the criteria? I'm looking at the Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle but at $750 or so it's really more than I want to spend - I'll also need accessories and so forth, adding to the cost. Yet I am concerned that if I economize I'll get a bad rifle that won't shoot - I read flints are much more finicky.

Here's a "Blue Ridge" from Cabela...

Oh yeah, Justin was looking at a kit in which the stock came in two pieces and was connected by a brass plate and some studs. Seems like a bad idea...


Enough typing I'd love to hear your opinions

 

[TNflintlock]

Try giving Tip Curtis a call at (615) 654-4445. He owns the Tip Curtis Frontier Shop in Cross Plains, TN. He offers complete guns, in-the-white, and kits. If possible drive down with you son and go to the shop. Last time I was in there he had around 30 rifles assembled. This would allow you to try different styles to see which you like the best.

 

[ian45662]

The in the white thing like what TNflintlock said is probably your best option. You can get a semi custom rifle for a descent price if you go that route. The blueridge link that you posted it a good rifle I had one in 54 ca and I am sure someone here has one in 45 that can give you all the ins and outs but still a gun in the white like what Tip Curtis would have will have a better lock better barrel and all that stuff and it wont take to long to finish up. You will also have to buy different things but not all that stuff at once as I am sure your club members will loan you stuff. You will need flints patch material round balls powder measure and powder to at least shoot the gun

 

[Birddog6]

Don't even think about taking your wife to Tips, as she is gonna be ****** when you spend 6-7 hours there. :shake: no joke ! Take cash or your checkbook, as he don't take CC's. You will be glad ya went, and you will go back.. :wink:

 

[poordevil]

TVM(Muzzleloading) They have some guns in the 800 range and they are as good as they get

P

 

[ohio ramrod]

If you are just getting into this game buy a Dixie gun works catalog. Even if you never order from them the information alone is well worth the price. Also they have several kits .Their catalog is full of information about this game and what is available. Also Track of the wolf and Log cabin catalogs are nice.Not as much information but a lot of items.

 

[DTCoffin]

I haven't been to a rondezvous yet that didn't the nicest people you could ask for.I've been to the Eastern probably a dozen times.Nowhere have I seen so many people imbibing in spirits and not one single argument or fight.great people,sounds like you found a bunch also.

 

[Finnwolf]

Tony,
Depends on what you want to do. There are basically 2 types of flinters - factory and custom. Factory guns (Thompson Center, Lyman, Pedersoli and others) are OK if you don't intend to join a group, like those KY Rifles. Factory guns are generally not historically correct enough for them. If you and your son are not going to join a group and just go the range and shoot paper, then factory guns are a lot less cash. I do not recommend the T/C, but the Lyman and the Pedersoli are OK for the price. Even the Pedersoli is getting expensive as the US Dollar falls against the Euro.
If you get 2 custom rifles, you'll spend some cash even if you visit Tip and buy some of his in-the-white guns. Last time I looked, they were over $1000 each for a decent one.
Finally, I recommend the Lyman Great Pains Rifle for both of you. Why?

1. It can be bought in kit form, an easy kit for your son to finish. I don't know how skilled he is at woodworking and metal working but these kits won't get him in over his head.

2. You can buy a finished rifle for yourself and start shooting. Trouble is that the smallest caliber Lyman makes is a .50 but that's OK - the recoil on these guns is nothing if you don't pour too much powder down the barrel. Kids shoot them with no complaints all the time- really!

Go here and look... http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156031114

You'll spend

 

[Stumpkiller]

If you don't deer hunt the .45 is a sweet caliber. (It is whether you deer hunt or not, but I prefer larger). No laws against loading larger calibers down for target shooting.

 

[Le Grand]

I've got to side with Poordevil, take a look at the guns from Matt & Toni at TVM. http://www.avsia.com/tvm/ They'll build you just what you want. For certain, stay away from the very cheap stuff. And, keep in mind that a .50 is not a "big gun" when it comes to muzzleloaders shooting a round ball. You can shoot a .50 with light or moderate loads so you won't even notice any recoil. Get a rifle you'll be proud of and welcome to good flintlock shooting.

 

[Le Grand]

And Tony, just because you asked to hear some opinions, I'd say don't gear your flintlock rifle up with adjustable sights. Adjustable sights are often more trouble than they're worth. Most often you'd be much better off using the non-adjustable sights where you "adjust" them with a file so you're hittin' center with the load you and your rifle like best. That is also the most authentic way to have your flintlock rifle sighted. Also, like I said before, give a .50 more consideration. A .50 will do all a .45 will plus a bit more. What more? Well, it holds its range a bit better for longer shots and hits on metal targets are easier to see from the firing line. A .50 is just a little more gun without any bad side effects. It eats a little more lead but not necessarily more powder. Go for a .50, you'll like it.

 

[happyhunter]

I'm pretty new to muzzleloaders myself. I do hunt with my 50. I use 80 gr of FF, my 14 yr old son thinks the recoil is alright. My 12 yr old daughter is very petite. She loads 65 gr of FF with a 50 ball and does not mind it at all. That is the biggest gun she ever shot. I loaded it with 80 gr this past weekend and she did notice the difference, but she wasn't rattled by it or mad about it.

I notice 50 cal guns are more available as assembled rifles. I see lots of recommendations for the Lyman Great Plains. I kinda wish I had bought one of them rather than my TC Renegade.

 

[Tom Compton]

First, attend several matches and or get to gathers. ask for permission to handle full xtocks, half stocks, short barrels, long barrels, etc.

TVM Southern Mountain rifle in .40 cal 7/8 barrel 36 to 42" long was my choice.

TC

 

[hanshi]

I guess I'm about the only one to recommend a .45 if available. It's definitely a great, accurate caliber and it is fine as a deer killer. Takes less lead & powder and loads down for small game a tad better than larger calibers. If it's going to be a dedicated big game rifle, a .50 might be a better choice.

 

[tony ennis]

Wow, what a great response. Keep it coming!

Ok, ixnay on the adjustable sights, add a Siler lock, double set trigger, and probably 50 cal as my son is looking at 45 cal (to match his pistol) and we want to cover different bases.

Ah, barrel length... long rifles seem to be anywhere from 35 to 42". How critical is the length?

I'm gonna blow my budget. :grin:

 

[Le Grand]

Tony, Barrel length on a muzzleloading rifle isn't critical ballistically, it's just part of that rifle's character. Most of the early rifles, let's say those before 1820, had long barrels. One great exception to that, and there are others, is the Harper's Ferry rifle of 1803 with its 33" barrel. What you should do is go back to the club where you saw so many flintlock rifles and look at them again. This time look for details such as barrel length. Look and see what you like the best, then go for it. The rifle you'll be ordering will be 'your rifle.' Also, keep in mind that if you don't like either the 36" or the 42", you can go for a 39" barrel. That is a non-standard length for many makers but they'll still be glad to give you what you want. Getting a special barrel length might raise the price of the finished rifle but only a little.

 

[ian45662]

I will also give high marks for the 45 as an all around good or great cal. I shoot competitively with it at a local club and it is accurate with 40 grains.You can keep that load or drop it some and go hunting for tree rats or you can load it up 70 grains or so and take some deer with it. If hunting were your ONLY reason for getting it I would recommend a bigger cal but since you may be doing a little bit of everything I will tell you to do what I did and that is build a 45.

 

[Le Grand]

You'll find no argument about the .45 caliber rifles from this side of the fire. The .50 was bein' bally-hoo'd just 'cause he said he didn't want a heavy recoiling rifle. Well, with most of the safe and sane loadings, the .50 isn't heavy recoiling. We should be sure he knows how much fun a .40 can be too. I don't know but I've heard that the .40 seems to take a little jump forward every time it is fired.

 

[tony ennis]

My plan at this point it to buy a decent beginner gun and buy a nice gun or kit in a year or so if I stay interested. I'm looking at a Blue Ridge Frontier or Kentucky rifle.

I have not decided on the caliber though it sounds like the recoil isn't anything to worry about. Nothing I shot last weekend had an appreciable recoil.

 

[Le Grand]

Tony, If you stay interested? There is nothing that can kill a pilgrim's interest in flintlocks faster than a poor or cheap flintlock. On the other hand, there's nothing that can win your heart faster than a good flintlock, one that will work when you ask it to. Maybe you can find a good used one instead of a new cheapy. Besides, the cheap imports are gettin' quite spendy for what you get. Go back to that club and shoot their's some more, look more and learn more. Keep the interest, it's a good one.