Non-Toxic Round Balls

[GreyWhiskers]

Has anybody done any experimenting with a viable alternative to lead roundballs for hunting?

I may be going on a premium deer hunt next year in a lead-free zone and want to use my ML rifle.

I have a couple of those ITX r/balls. Not sure what they are made of but they're too hard to scratch with your fingernail. Loaded and shot one that measured .489" with a .010 patch and it was very tough to start. Will need to buy some more to play with.

I've wondered about melting Bismuth shot into r/balls but I'm not sure if it's still available.

GW

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I'm not aware of anything but the ITX and I'm not surprised they are hard to load but how did they shoot?

 

[roundball]

Has anybody done any experimenting with a viable alternative to lead roundballs for hunting?

I may be going on a premium deer hunt next year in a lead-free zone and want to use my ML rifle.

I have a couple of those ITX r/balls. Not sure what they are made of but they're too hard to scratch with your fingernail. Loaded and shot one that measured .489" with a .010 patch and it was very tough to start. Will need to buy some more to play with.

I've wondered about melting Bismuth shot into r/balls but I'm not sure if it's still available.
GW

GW, since this whole non-toxic thing is so new, my understanding is that there are very few offerings yet...so just brainstorming, I've thought that balls used in ball bearings would work...no expansion but a hole through a heart is a hole through a heart.
Would have to use a size that's definitely smaller than bore to avoid any chance of diameter variances causing problems...use with much thicker than normal patches but they should work for hunting accuracy...here's just one manufacturer's chart...they make a 12mm (.472")
http://www.abbottball.com/products/product-dimensions.php

 

[Rat Trapper]

I don't think ball bearings are going to work for you as they are made out of steel. Steel balls are going to be too hard to load and might be harmful to the barrel. You need to vote the liberals who made the non lead areas out of office.

 

[roundball]

Steel balls are going to be too hard to load and might be harmful to the barrel.

"...Would have to use a size that's definitely smaller than bore to avoid any chance of diameter variances causing problems...use with much thicker than normal patches but they should work for hunting accuracy...here's just one manufacturer's chart...they make a 12mm (.472")

Can you explain how a .472" ball with a thicker than normal patch in a .500cal bore would be hard to load or harmful to a barrel ?

 

[PaulN/KS]

With all the pure copper bullets that are hitting the market I wonder if pure copper roundballs would be an alternative...? :hmm:

Heck, there is even an historical precedent as the Mexican army used solid copper shot in there cannons.

 

[roundball]

I assume they'd work...I think the issue for GW at the moment is availability of a workable alternative...he has a hunt coming up.



Just contacted that company to see if I can buy a small quantity to try...they may only deal in commercial size lots of thousands or something...will post back.

 

Searched: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/257818

 

[nkbj]

Zinc melts at about 800 degrees Fahrenheit.
Aluminum melts at about 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit.
An old Lee mold might be worth risking to try it out. The low density would limit the range.

 

[roundball]

I assume they'd work...I think the issue for GW at the moment is availability of a workable alternative...he has a hunt coming up.



Just contacted that company to see if I can buy a small quantity to try...they may only deal in commercial size lots of thousands or something...will post back.

Heard back from the sales section of the company just now...confirmed receipt of my request and forwarded it to a couple of folks (with them on CC) to see if they could make it happen...so at least he didn't reject it out of hand...we'll see.



So...a .472" ball in a .500" bore...a pair of .020" patches might work...might need a pair of .022" or .025s.
In addition to my normal .018" and .022" patches, I also have .005", .010", .015" patches on hand for experimenting like this...hopefully they'll be willing to sell me small quantity.

If it turns out they're accurate, we'll have learned something...if not, we'll have still learned something.

 

[Norinco]

Coat it with a softer metal?

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Some good ideas,guys. Thanks. :thumbsup:

The steel bearings idea got me to wondering about the expanding bullet requirements normally associated with hunting big game.

California's ML regulations only specify a ball, bullet etc. No mention of expanding as it is with CF regulations.

But, they list the TomBob, ITX r/balls as an approved lead free projectile. So, I'll most likely get a couple dozen of em and work up a load.

GW

 

[roundball]

No sweat...if this company will sell them to me, I'll probably go ahead and conduct / document a test for these steel balls anyway and have it done...if they're accurate, I'll try them on deer myself.



What is a "TomBob" ?

 

[BrownBear]

I've got kind of a funny reaction to the potential requirement based on past experience. I was a fanatic muzzleloader duck hunter right up till we couldn't use lead any more. Got all tied up in knots over it, sold the gun and devoted a lot of effort to whining.

Then I spent the next 20 or so years not doing what I loved most. Sheesh. Talk about stoooopid! In retrospect, I should have stuck with it and shot burned popcorn seeds if that's what they required me to hunt with.

This time around, if they require nontox for deer, bring it on. I'll use whatever they allow, and I won't be cutting off the rest of my nose to spite my face. :rotf:

 

[GreyWhiskers]

What is a "TomBob" ?

TomBob is the name of the company that markets the ITX roundballs. I guess Tom Bob was one of the company's employees that died and they decided to change the name to honor him.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I don't live in the lead-free area so it hasn't affected me until I started planning next year's deer hunt. I could use my CF rifle or maybe buy a different barrel for my TC and shoot something with a sabot. :shocked2: But I'd like to hunt as "traditionally" as possible.

If I can make these ITX balls work I'll use em.

There's a time and place to protest regulations, etc. I've written my letters to DFG Commission. I still want to hunt, though. $30 for non-toxic r/balls won't kill me. GW

 

[roundball]

The only reason I began thinking about testing steel balls was because you posted about being displeased with the ITX experience you had.
I can't believe the steel balls would be any cheaper or offer any better performance...just a possible alternative.
Unless they're real expensive, now I'm interested in trying them for the experience of it...its always good if there's something new and interesting to do at the range...

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Hey, I appreciate the effort. I have only shot one of those ITX balls. I helped put on a Hunter Education Clinic on ML hunting. A group that was demonstrating non-toxic alternative projectiles asked me to shoot one into ballistic gel.

If I remember right, the ITX ball pushed all the way thru the gel. A pure lead r/ball I fired with the same load almost made it all the way thru.

My biggest worry was the tight fit with a .010" patch. Not sure if I could have got it started with a .016" patch.

I'll need to do more experimenting and less speculating. I am interested in any experimenting you do with steel balls. GW

 

[roundball]

If I'm able to get any, I may get the size I can use in a .54cal smoothbore instead, and keep things simple to begin with.

I see that they make a 13mm / .511" ball...might do surprisingly well in a smoothbore with extra patching...I currently use a .520" with .022".

 

[buripity]

I too, was at the same ML Black Powder demo as Grey Whiskers. This is a very interesting topic from a shooter's standpoint, but I also find the science of it equally intriguing. :hmm: Here is an article from Black Powder Magazine where someone did just such a test with the ITX balls through a .50 caliber muzzleloader. This may shed some more light on the topic.
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/nonlead-field-test.php