New Mexico iron sights regulation.

[waksupi]

I’ve went all most completely smoothie these days, how would we react to a smoothbore only flintlock rule?
Hmmmmm

I've killed deer, elk, and antelope with smoothbores. Shoot them enough, and you can hit as well as with a rifle, without those pesky sights cluttering the barrel.

 

[flatcreek]

In N.J. years ago you could hunt with a muzzleloader or shotgun during regular season. I always chose muzzleloader. Today with some inlines you might just as well use a 308.

 

[45man]

Nothing should be banned even those inline thingys but there are times to use them. Primitive should be just that and like when it is too hot to hang meat, if you can't see good then sleep in or get a disabled stamp. I have to give up most archery and special seasons because of weather. Unlike my rich friend that takes his to a butcher.

 

[Bullit]

Well, I can see both sides of the argument. However, personally if it is called Primitive Season, I don't see much primitive in a 3x9 variable or the likes. An old period correct scope where you had to "torque" the scope to zero is more acceptable. On the other hand if it's called "Muzzleloader Season", now days that's different. I do believe that modern muzzleloader should be lump summed into general firearm deer season. Same with pistol season. Pistol season used to have it's own season. Now in my hunting state, you can use a pistol, muzzleloader, rifle or shotgun during regular firearm season. These changes are all being pushed by money, the insurance companies to be exact. They want more deer killed so they don't have to pay out for the tens of thousands of deer collisions per state, per year. A return to primitive season would be welcome but now something would have to go to make room, or extend the season, which I don't believe the insurance companies could push through with the DNR. Kinda a mute point discussing the trivials since they don't listen to us anyway but just do what they want.

 

[Relic shooter]

Not long ago New Mexico banned the use of scopes for muzzleloader hunting. Seems like a necessary trend with higher success and more demand. I would be all for primative only season in AZ if not an outright ban on scopes during muzzleloader hunts. You guys like this change or should they have made other changes to lower success instead?

Adding a scope to a muzzleloader kills the whole idea of a primitive muzzleloader hunt.
Same goes break open & bolt action muzzleloaders that use cartridge primers.

When our group in Idaho Falls started Idaho's 1st ML hunt back in the late sixties we never conceived that scopes or zip gun muzzleloaders
would be put on the platter as they have in many states.

Fish & Game officials in states that allow these zip guns sold their ethics & welfare for wildlife for higher income of increased hunting tag sales.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Not long ago New Mexico banned the use of scopes for muzzleloader hunting. Seems like a necessary trend with higher success and more demand. I would be all for primative only season in AZ if not an outright ban on scopes during muzzleloader hunts. You guys like this change or should they have made other changes to lower success instead?

I believe with the introduction of "inlines", the ML season is losing some of the intent of what it should be. The original idea being a more or less primitive hunt with older style guns. Inlines are a cheat, certainly scopes are.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

All the inlines scoped or not should hunt in the general rifle season. The fact is that they're modern rifles using modern components and should be treated as such. They're a corruption of the original intent of muzzleloading seasons which was to be able to hunt like our ancestors did without the competition of gamers using 500 yard scoped "muzzleloaders".

 

[Daytime Smoker]

Sadly, this is the sort of thing that divides hunters. As we are seeing from some other posts. If it’s legal, and ethical, by all means, have at it! It makes no difference to me how one hunts as long as it’s within the means of the rules. Scopes? Have at it! Crossbows? Have at it! In-line.. have at it! Anything traditional.. by all means have at it! I want to see people in the woods, and that’s what we need. So, how I choose to hunt should make not difference on anyone’s opinion. Just celebrate the fact we have hunters. I say all this because we are losing hunters and we are losing the connection to the outdoors. I would hate for any regulations to deter a hunter from joining the ranks.

Anthony

 

[The Crisco Kid]

This is one of those issues where I suppose you can be right and wrong at the same time. It's all about the money, as in selling licenses and tags, but I'll hunt with the guns my ancestors did and leave the scoped inlines to those who have no sense of the historical perspective.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Those big .45-70 slugs coming at a target must look like a freight train!

They sure feel that way! A 405gr round nosed pill doing 1450fps will penetrate 6 feet of meat.
First year of elk hunting I used one. Next year I went with a 250gr flat nosed.
Saved more meat.

 

[mule163]

I believe that way back when primitive muzzleloading hunting seasons were first conceived that the intent was for the use of traditional style single shot, percussion or flintlock, open iron sighted muzzleloaders. Almost immediately after that concept was made public the modern in-line muzzleloader was invented. As far as I'm concerned, those abominations corrupted muzzleloading seasons all across the nation!
Ooh. You just cannot imagine how much I despise those things!
Muzzleloader hunting seasons should be for traditional style single shot, percussion or flintlock, open iron sighted muzzleloaders !!!

}:~(

Mule152 I agree 100%

 

[waksupi]

I was involved with writing the Montana muzzle loading laws back around 42 years ago, with state representative Ethel Harding. The group of us working on the project had never even thought or heard of an inline back then. The law stood for many years until the inlines came into being. Then, a new guy on the game commission wanted a muzzle loading season, because he had got himself an inline, and by god, he wanted a season for it. He didn't realize how strong and large the numbers of traditional shooters were in the state. We showed up at the meetings, and it went down in flames. The law that went into effect here a couple years ago reflect our original law closely with few changes.

 

[kitchen lawn]

I support the ban on scopes for muzzleloader hunting in New Mexico to maintain a primitive experience. Adjusting other factors to lower success rates could be considered to preserve the challenge.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Then there should be regulations restricting hunting by age and/or by visual acuity; NOT by regulations banning certain firearm accessories.

LOL, no I was not favoring the regulation, but making the point that folks with vision problems correct by optics would instantly become excluded. Sorry I wasn't clear...

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I support the ban on scopes for muzzleloader hunting in New Mexico to maintain a primitive experience. Adjusting other factors to lower success rates could be considered to preserve the challenge.

That's a non-sequitur position.

How would an old guy, or a dude born with poor eyesight, using a scope on HIS rifle somehow change the aesthetics of another person's hunt? Does seeing a guy with a scope on a "traditional" or replica rifle somehow completely ruin or massively degrade another person's hunt? By that logic, ALL of the participants in the New Mexico primitive hunt should be wearing period correct clothing to maintain everybody's "primitive experience", made by hand as well, of course that would require a specific era to be legislated. Don't forget transport to and from the hunting area would then need to be by horseback, on a replica primitive saddle.

But in fact that's not the case. The hunters are free to wear as much nylon, GoreTex, velcro, carry "hothands" warmers, thermos' with a hot beverage, and use a GPS to navigate while on foot in their modern boots, having dismounted from their modern vehicles, and OH don't forget the "no fly zone" over the state during the hunt.... wouldn't want the sound of a plane to destroy the illusion.

As for "preserving the challenge" that's up to the hunter to set the challenge for themselves. The individual hunter is free to use a smoothbore without rear sight, or heck, make a bow from scratch and use DIY arrows with turkey feathers and a hand knapped point. Nothing in the regular state seasons stops a hunter from doing all of the above for themselves, for the sake of the experience when it's not the "primitive" season, eh?

LD

 

[French Colonial]

I am in the camp that says traditional ML season should be kept traditional, If you can not shoot a traditional gun for whatever reason that is to bad, you will have to find another season to shoot in.

It is not like anyone is saying you can not hunt during other seasons.

 

[Ponderosaman]

We’ve done the anything goes route in the past and it leads to extirpation and unsafe, unethical hunting. The Sangre De Christo Mountains in New Mexico are breathtakingly beautiful and were once almost completely devoid of wildlife due to market hunting.

Hunting regulations in New Mexico are lead and approved by New Mexico hunters, not the gum’t. It is illegal to shoot a turkey on the roost in New Mexico, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I don’t like how confusing and compartmented hunting laws are, but I don’t mind the restrictions, when they enable safer, more satisfying hunts, without impinging on the accessibility of hunting.

All that word salad, means I’m on the fence about this particular issue.

That said, it would be much better if we as a community set the expectations for what is ethical rather than relying on laws to govern our activities.

 

[Relic shooter]

LOL, no I was not favoring the regulation, but making the point that folks with vision problems correct by optics would instantly become excluded. Sorry I wasn't clear...

LD

I fit in the vision problem area LD but that was resolved by wearing fa peep sight on my eyeglasses & have posted photos & a description on how simple & inexpensive they are to make.

I had operated a muzzleloading storefront for a few years in Idaho prior to assisting in writing Idaho's first muzzleloader hunt in the late 60's. Getting our state's first ML hunt established went pretty easy after introducing Bob Sherwood our state wildlife game biologist to hunting with a muzzleloader. He quickly became addicted & helped pave the way to getting our state's first ML hunt approved in just a short period.

We were aware that the firearms industry & some individual hunters would try to pervert the concept of Idaho's primitive muzzleloading hunt if the rules were not made clear but unfortunately during this period neither of us conceived that a few years later zip-gun styled muzzleloaders would be commercially produced.
Unfortunately Fish & Game in most states have been politicized by our political prostitutes who are willing to sell out America to the highest bidders.

 

[1853enfield]

Some of these in lines will shot way out past the common distance for a 30/30. The use of a muzzle loader was to actually hunt. I hate banning anything but this would be like a speed limit We already have rules on the caliber that can be used on deer elk etc.. and i wish there was a plain old hunt like it was done way back in the 1860's. for that matter the 1960's as i don't think there were the in-lines then. I cant hunt anymore to many heart attacks, but i would like my sons and grandsons to be able to enjoy the fun i had when there was a season for black powder. now the success rate has gone up to the point that the states have shortened the seasons a few days and not several weeks. The last year i tried to hunt i drew a disabled hunt. what a joke. It gave me the permit for any bull from spike on up.. ok they put my hunt in the general rifle season. It looked like rush hour in Los Angles with the road hunters There is no way i could have gotten out of the car loaded and taken a shot before half a dozen other guys had already fired. disabled means slow moving that was the last time i bought a license. I had a lot of points left so i e-mailed the game department telling i bought the points and should be able to put it in my will who was to get them when the fire goes out. they informed me that was not allowed. and yes i knew that but decided to have a bit of fun contacting them. At least i can still bench rest shoot and i can see open sights not like i used to but god enough to have a lot of fun. I am not good at putting my thoughts from my head to paper so hope this does not read like a a 3rd grader wrote it.
joe g from central washington state

 

[Rudyard]

There being no closed season of introduced deer of all sorts in NZ in fact most any four legged creature that runs wild with no other than the insistence of no rifles of low power as in 22 rf .The smooth bores being disallowed on crown lands ie National parks ect ..However regardless of the modern fire power available I stayed solidly with my muzzleloaders from burning string to the copper caps . Iv'e never seen or heard of any inline cheaters in NZ as there is no place or reason for such abominations .
Smooth bore guns being normal for waterfowl & the quail ect. just not large game more to prevent shooting the tame native pigeons if on private lands you can bowl deer or feral pigs goats ect if not the pigeons
Rudyard''s take on the matter