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Muzzle loading percussion or flint

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Interesting thought, MD. I use a platinum nipple on the long range gun. Using full power loads, 5 or 6 shots ruined a regular nipple. My mentors set me straight, and I ordered a platinum one.

I wonder if one could platinum-line a Chambers vent?
Regards,
Pletch
 
I enjoy the flintlock.

Started with percussion, but haven't fired mine in many years.

I'm muzzleloading for the tradition and challenge of the pursuit. Flintlocks were around for 10 times the history of percussion.

Are you shooting muzzleloaders for a reason or a season?
 
I have the Navy Arms Hawken Hunter made for heavy conicals and the nipple is made of beryllium copper to endure the added pressure.
The trouble with a flash hole is there is nothing to plug the hole as there is with a percussion cap and hammer nose.
 
No, they weren’t.

Percussion guns were being commonly offered in prints in several countries (U.S., U.K., France etc.) since the early 1820s. They were the predominant form of rifle ignition until the early 1870s so that’s a solid 40-50 years.

Flintlocks were not around for 400-500 years before the percussion guns rapidly replaced them. Sorry. Maybe about 250, at best.
 
It’s a invalid point. Flint sticking steel started about 1500. Leonardo drew a wheel lock and an early snaphaunce. So let’s say 1550-1820, best part of three hundred years, plus never not in manufacture on to new guns since 1820.
But,
That hardly counts, it hasn’t had the time to have been around longer. And since replaced by suppository guns there has never been a year when new cappers haven’t been built.
However real men eat quiche, drink lattes and craft beer and shoot flint guns... or some such thing.
 
Well Pletch...There you go again, making me THINK.
:bow: :hmm:
I'm curious enough about a possible Platinum "White Lightnin" vent liner to ask Jim about it next time I have the opportunity to chat with him about metals, metallurgy and the development of his product. I understand the Platinum nipple has become the standard for long range caplock shooting due to exactly the issue you mentioned so we have some basis for cost comparison. I've "Shot out" a Chamber's liner so I have some experience going through the process of replacing one. That's absolutely NOT a knock on Jim's liner btw. I had put close to 4000 rounds through the one I replaced, which is about what Jim says to expect. I'd be curious to know what it would cost to make one up in Platinum, and what the life expectancy might be. :idunno:
Just thinking with my keyboard this morning.. :shake:
 
Actually, the crossbow was not an improvement over the longbow. Every time they came up against each other in battle, the longbow won. The crossbow was expensive to make and slow to load and very slow to fire more than once. It would penetrate plate armor, if it got close enough. England never widely adopted the crossbow because they had a large number of trained longbowmen.

Sorry for going astray.
 
Maybe I can put us back on track.
I built two percussion rifles, hunted with them, and converted them both to flint, never to look back.
 
I think a lot of that has to do with having the option of either and more modern arms that was not available then.
The advantages of percussion ignition are irrefutable when were talking from a military or personal protection point of view and is the reason one sees so many flint conversions to percussion and not the other way around, in history.
 
M.D. said:
I think a lot of that has to do with having the option of either and more modern arms that was not available then.
The advantages of percussion ignition are irrefutable when were talking from a military or personal protection point of view and is the reason one sees so many flint conversions to percussion and not the other way around, in history.

And if we were really concerned with those things we would be here on this forum, but have unmentionables.
 
Henry Leman was building contract flint/percussion, smooth/rifled, full and halfstock into the 1860s. Rimfire had already been invented, and centerfire 50-70s would come along in the later 1860s. Yes, they continued to build percussion, but we still build flint as well.
 
The reason I think we have more fun with flints is because of the history timeline and they are a fun contraption to play with, but if our lives depended on them today, I'm sure we would take a more modern route.
 
Boomerang said:
The reason I think we have more fun with flints is because of the history timeline and they are a fun contraptionto play with, but if our lives depended on them today, I'm sure we would take a more modern route.

Im the history side. MUCH fun to play with. As for self defense the wife is always reminding me I cant keep up with the moderns (AR etc). I believe I could go get me one w/o much smack talk from her, (but I dont want one). I just reply that I may only get one but my hole will be WAY bigger than his :blah:
 
Exactly. Some think as soon as the percussions came out the flints ceased use and manufacture. This just ain’t so. I personally am putting together a late flint era 1840s gun, bag (and contents), and horn modeled after that period.

Many, actually most, say they enjoy the flinty side of things. And as far as defense? Well, I’ll just say this, you’ve got one shot but I’ll bet some of these boys on this board can shoot a lot better than some and they tend to know their guns. In most self defense situations a single shot can make the difference. They are NOT useless for the purpose if they have to be pressed during a hunting trip when you’re attacked by someone on drugs etc. etc.
 
I'm am really glad we have both ignition systems out there today to be had but there are probably ten percussion guns sold today for every flint gun, my guess would be and the same probably was true in the past once caps became widely available.
Another thought along these lines is why did flint locks become so nostalgically prominent and not match or wheel locks?
 
M.D. said:
...Another thought along these lines is why did flint locks become so nostalgically prominent and not match or wheel locks?

I think it's for a couple of reasons;
Flint guns are generally more graceful looking, and similar in appearance to more modern stocks. Yes, they are fussy to deal with, but not nearly as fussy as wheel guns. Wheelies need a great deal more attention to keep them functioning. Match lock guns suffer from the same affliction of being somewhat different looking, but also the issue of keeping the match lit, and fussing with a glowing ember around a bunch of powder--a notable safety hazard.
Then there is the issue of cost. A match lock or percussion lock are relatively simple, and will cost about the same. A FL (and predecessors such as the snaphaunce, dog lock and miquolet, etc. ) will be about the same level of complication to produce, and in theory, should cost about the same. A wheel lock is much more complicated and expensive to produce. Pyrites are harder to find and more expensive than flints. All of them (including the cap lock) can be charged and left loaded for an indeterminate length of time, and in that way, they are far more convenient to be made ready for use than the match lock.
Then there is the notion of history. The self-contained flint lock persevered for several hundred years, and was instrumental in the formation of our country through the AWI, and early exploration. It served similarly in Europe and the British Empire. It was also much more prolifically produced than the others over the course of it being the "front line technology of the day".

Those are my thoughts anyway, but they are absent any emperical data. Doubtless others know a great deal more about it than I do.
 
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