Montgomery Wards Caplock?

[Richard Brinkman]

A friend call yesterday and ask if I could help him get started shooting a cap and ball? Of course I ask a cap and ball what? He says a Montgomery Wards .50 cal rifle, never heard of one. Load up some stuff and head out and sure enough thats what it is in pretty good shape bore is a little ruff but shot OK with 70 grains of 2FF with patch and round ball. He had some Buffalo ball bullets that were probably 20 years old and some new fangled artifical powder "fertalizer" couldn't believe that real powder would shoot great, go off everytime go into a 2" group at 50 yards while the new fangled wonder stuff at best would make a 12" group at the same range when it went off, go figure?

Anyway what I need to know is that he needs a new nipple, the old one has been dry fired on a few times and in pretty bad shape made it work but needs to be replaced. I looked in the TOW web site and see that there is two 6mm size nippples one is a 6-1mm and the other is a 6-.75mm I will mike the one he has today but does anyone know what the American measurements would be as for the diameters? This rifle was made by Navy Arms and looks much like a Lyman plains rifle.

Thanks, Richard

 

[MikeChapin]

...

Anyway what I need to know is that he needs a new nipple, the old one has been dry fired on a few times and in pretty bad shape made it work but needs to be replaced. I looked in the TOW web site and see that there is two 6mm size nippples one is a 6-1mm and the other is a 6-.75mm I will mike the one he has today but does anyone know what the American measurements would be as for the diameters? This rifle was made by Navy Arms and looks much like a Lyman plains rifle.

Thanks, Richard

Check the barrel and see if it was made in Italy or Spain. If it is Italian made, that would be my guess, use the 6-.75mm. If Spanish, it would probably be a 6-1mm.

 

[Richard Brinkman]

Maybe under the stock there is something but on the top and sides all it says is Navy Arms does name some town in Illinois. I'll look at it again today maybe come up with more info.
Thanks, Richard

 

[bwhoffman]

Mike's reply is right on the money!

another thing you can do, is go to the hardware store and buy a small bolt of each, metric 6x1, 6x.75 and a 1/4x28. these are the "common" ML nipple thread/pitch sizes.
Good field guages!

 

[CaptainKirk]

*As far as I know,*
Lyman is the only one using metric nipple threads.
Don't take this as gospel, however. You probably have a standard U.S. thread screw lying around your house. See if it will thread in. If not, THEN go buy the metric bolt.
Just my .02! :v

 

[Richard Brinkman]

Hardware store is a good idea but it is smaller than a 1/4 X 28 done checked that.

 

[ohio ramrod]

6 mm runs about 235 od so if it is smaller than 1/4 it is most likely 6mm. A few T.C. ( cherokkee and I believe senaca) used a #12 nipple but most nipples smaller than 1/4 are 6mm.

 

[okieboy]

I want to explain metric screw nomenclaure for you. Imperial (fractional) threads are written diameter dash threads per inch (TPI), so you have 1/4-28 being .250 diameter - 28 threads in one inch. Metric threads are written diameter dash length of one thread pitch (the distance that the screw moves in one turn, basicly the distance from the top of one thread to the next). So, M6-1 is .2364" - .0394" pitch length. M6-0.75 is .2364" - .0296". The diameter is alnost always about .002-.004 smaller than nominal so the top of the thread doesn't interfere with the mating female thread. It is difficult to measure a single pitch length accurately, measuring across more threads and then dividing improves acuracy.
One way I often do this is to rub the threads against a piece of paper, darken the marks with a sharp pencil measure across as many marks as possible and then divide by the number of spaces (not marks!). This method can be applied to inside threads like the breech threads.
I hope this helps you, I am a metal working professional (Tool Specialist), so I think you will find the information pretty accurate.

 

[Richard Brinkman]

Now thats some info there exactly what I was looking for thanks a lot!

Richard

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Great Post! :thumbsup:

This ought to be pasted into the forum archives somehow. I've never seen thread pitch explained better! Could wind-up saving an accident from happening when someone arm wrestles the wrong, miss-fitting undersized nipple into a breech and wonders why it goes zipping past somebody's face at a common firing line!

Dave