Molybdenum disulfide

[jrdavis]

Molybdenum-Sulfur Compounds in Lubrication. Molybdenum disulfide is used as a dry lubricant in, e.g. greases, dispersions, friction materials and bonded coatings.Molybdenum-sulfur complexes may be used in suspension but more commonly dissolved in lubricating oils at concentrations of a few percent....it isa dry lubricant

 

[Rifleman1776]

IT’S A DO YOUR OWN THANG GAME

First: It is "do YER own thang...". "Your" is for Yankees.

If perfectly pc was required, this ml avocation would only have a few members nationwide. The guy who starts this game with a TC 'not really a hawken-hawken' is, at least starting this game. And, I suspect a very high percentage of us here did just that or with a similar factory made ml rifle. What is to criticize about that? Some go on from there to more pc (make that "expensive") rifles and equipment. Many do not for personal and/or personal reasons. What is to criticize about that? Except for safety considerations and getting close to crossing the line into modern rifles (read that "inlines"), it, very much, is a "DO YER OWN THANG GAME".

 

[Cowboy]

First: It is "do YER own thang...". "Your" is for Yankees.

If perfectly pc was required, this ml avocation would only have a few members nationwide. The guy who starts this game with a TC 'not really a hawken-hawken' is, at least starting this game. And, I suspect a very high percentage of us here did just that or with a similar factory made ml rifle. What is to criticize about that? Some go on from there to more pc (make that "expensive") rifles and equipment. Many do not for personal and/or personal reasons. What is to criticize about that? Except for safety considerations and getting close to crossing the line into modern rifles (read that "inlines"), it, very much, is a "DO YER OWN THANG GAME".

Sorry for misquoting you Rifleman!!! HeHeHe

Y’all know how us yankee’s is!

I totally agree with everything you said my friend. Nothing wrong with a TC or what ever one may have. Yes, some have deeper pockets to boot!! Besides I’ve seen more than once shooters with those kind of rifles out shoot others with those high dollar custom guns! HeHeHe

Nothing wrong with shooting what ya have unless it’s a juryed event! I’m talking about a sidelock of course. I’ Never look down on anothers gun !!

God Bless and let them make smoke!!

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Carbon 6]

Molybdenum-Sulfur Compounds in Lubrication. Molybdenum disulfide is used as a dry lubricant in, e.g. greases, dispersions, friction materials and bonded coatings.Molybdenum-sulfur complexes may be used in suspension but more commonly dissolved in lubricating oils at concentrations of a few percent....it isa dry lubricant

The reason Molly is added to grease or oil lubricants is to provide a secondary lubricant when the base lubricant fails under extreme heat or pressure.....These extreme conditions do not exist on a muzzleloader lock.
Molly simply isn't needed.

Now, before you say,"well it cant hurt can it"?
The answer is yes!
It is as some have stated, Non-traditional, messy, and more expensive, it is usually the same color as carbon fouling, and it offers no quantifiable benefit to the muzzleloader shooter.

That is of course, unless you are trying to sell it to some ignorant sap so you can afford to give your children a proper education.
If you were unlucky enough to have purchased some and have no other lubricants, then by all means use that stuff up if your heart so desires.

 

[jrdavis]

The reason Molly is added to grease or oil lubricants is to provide a secondary lubricant when the base lubricant fails under extreme heat or pressure.....These extreme conditions do not exist on a muzzleloader lock.
Molly simply isn't needed.

Now, before you say,"well it cant hurt can it"?
The answer is yes!
It is as some have stated, Non-traditional, messy, and more expensive, it is usually the same color as carbon fouling, and it offers no quantifiable benefit to the muzzleloader shooter.

That is of course, unless you are trying to sell it to some ignorant sap so you can afford to give your children a proper education.
If you were unlucky enough to have purchased some and have no other lubricants, then by all means use that stuff up if your heart so desires.

this post was not about a patch lube as you seem to imply; it was about using a lube, that has been around for a few thousands years, to lube the moving parts on your muzzle loading lock

 

[PluggedNickel]

The OP asked a simple question about lubrication. Since this topic, “Flintlock Rifles” is not in the reenacting part of the forum, I don’t understand why it is a sin or sacrilege to use moly as a lube if someone chooses to. Plenty of the members here use Bore Butter, Treso nipples on cap locks, ox-yoke wads, or other modern items.
I use Mobil 1, for lube on my BP revolvers. Doing my own thang here!
If you choose to use bear grease, mink oil, good on you. I respect that.

 

[Carbon 6]

this post was not about a patch lube as you seem to imply; it was about using a lube, that has been around for a few thousands years, to lube the moving parts on your muzzle loading lock

No! I wasn't implying any such thing.

These extreme conditions do not exist on a muzzleloader lock.

As far as the history goes, I'm pretty sure Molly wasn't added to a lubricant until after WW2, so we can rule out it being HC/PC.
If you have information to the contrary, I would enjoy seeing it.

 

[Zonie]

From what I can find, the use of refined petroleum as a lubricant didn't happen until around 1850.
That makes almost all currently available gun oils and greases non PC or HC for any time before then.

All of the moly lubes I've seen used a petroleum based "carrier", usually a grease of some kind.

For all of the folks that want to be totally HC and PC, that rules out using them or any other sort of modern grease on their locks. They should stick to animal based greases or oils.

For those who aren't really into being totally HC or PC I see no problem with using a modern grease. If it has Moly in it, it should work even better in places where there is very high loads like the place where the mainspring contacts the tumbler spur or, the mainspring to tumbler stirrup link.

As for me, I haven't used a Moly type grease on my guns mainly because I don't have any. A good gun grease seems to work nicely, even though it is keeping me from knowing how my forefathers lived.

 

[Black Hand]

...it was about using a lube, that has been around for a few thousands years, to lube the moving parts on your muzzle loading lock

I'd like to see the proof you have that Moly lube has been around for a few thousand years. Yes - molybdenum ore/metal has been around for billions of years, but its use in lubricant is quite recent....

 

[jrdavis]

I'd like to see the proof you have that Moly lube has been around for a few thousand years. Yes - molybdenum ore/metal has been around for billions of years, but its use in lubricant is quite recent....

it was isolated in 1781;; from that I would think someone was using it, to take the time and trouble to give it a name.
when tuning your flint lock do you not polish the mating parts in order to get a smother operating lock by using moly on the moving parts it lessens the friction the lock functions better.today commercial moly grease is suspended petroleum it can be added to any type oil or used dry it stays on the service...I can't say that they used it in the distance past just as you can't say that they did...

 

[Carbon 6]

it was isolated in 1781;; from that I would think someone was using it, ..

Partially correct, but still wrong.

This will clarify things for you.
https://www.imoa.info/molybdenum/molybdenum-history.php

 

[tenngun]

Did it go under a different name? So many old chemicals and compounds did

 

[jrdavis]

Partially correct, but still wrong.

This will clarify things for you.
https://www.imoa.info/molybdenum/molybdenum-history.php

there are several articles out there giving different dates. one being 1781 this being 1782. also this one speaks if alloying with the production of steel. and note the article says the white powder being processed to form black Molybdenum powder (dry-lube)

 

[Carbon 6]

there are several articles out there giving different dates. one being 1781 this being 1782. also this one speaks if alloying with the production of steel. and note the article says the white powder being processed to form black Molybdenum powder (dry-lube)

Not sure what you are referencing, it doesn't match what I posted.

There is no documentable evidence that molybdenum disulfide was used as a lubricant during the timeline of this forum, let alone used to lubricate a muzzleloading lock.
In fact the evidence is to the contrary.
I think we can leave it at that.

 

[Gene L]

I use Lithium grease, which is a metal (the lightest metal) in a soap base, which allows it to be spread. Most oils are mixed with a soap to form grease.. I'm quite happy with it and don't know or care when it was first used. I've never used animal grease, but I'll bet Li is a better grease. I'm interested in Traditional ML rifles and will do almost anything I can to make mine shoot better and last longer, including the use of WD-40 and CLP. If that offends anyone, he should probably interrogate his priorities, not mine.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I use Lithium grease, which is a metal (the lightest metal) in a soap base, which allows it to be spread. Most oils are mixed with a soap to form grease.. I'm quite happy with it and don't know or care when it was first used.

The advantage one gets with Lithium grease, is that on the internal parts of say a factory musket lock, you can see clearly if you're getting trace amounts of powder in behind the lock, and you also see when the stuff gets dirty, since rust or burned powder residue is clearly seen in the light colored grease.

LD

 

[jrdavis]

Not sure what you are referencing, it doesn't match what I posted.

There is no documentable evidence that molybdenum disulfide was used as a lubricant during the timeline of this forum, let alone used to lubricate a muzzleloading lock.
In fact the evidence is to the contrary.
I think we can leave it at that.

I m not sure if it was or not but I do find that it is a find lube that has be around for a long time I like it I do think that using it on your lock will improve its performance...it was around during the time of flint an percussion usage weather it was used or on I don’t know,I am suggesting the people should try it

 

[Carbon 6]

I m not sure if it was or not but I do find that it is a find lube that has be around for a long time I like it I do think that using it on your lock will improve its performance...it was around during the time of flint an percussion usage weather it was used or on I don’t know,I am suggesting the people should try it

Sure, molybdenum was around, it's been around for billions of years. It has been accidentally and inadvertenty used in metallurgy probably since the first guy smelted iron because molybdenite is found within other metal ores and for thousands of years people didn't have the abitlity to separate it or create it. As we entered into the industrial revolution the beneficial metallurgical aspects of molybdenum were discovered. They really became apparent in the late 19th century.
Molybdenum disulfide used a lubricant didn't evolve until after WW2 when we entered the jet age and space age.
Molly doesn't add any lubricating benefit until the base lubricant fails. This occurs at high temperatures and pressures.
If you like molly lube on your muzzleloader what you really like is the base lubricant that the molly is suspended in, because the base lube never experience a failure allowing the molly to do it's thing. Your muzzleloader lock never experiences temperatures or pressures high enough for the base lube to fail.
The idea that you need molly lube or that your lock benefits from molly lube is in my opinion simply false.

I'd also note that the earliest patent application I can find for Molybdenum disulfide based lubricant dates back to 1970.

 

[Baxter]

When I was much younger and owned a chemistry set, I did make up some black powder, small amount, it worked "ok" and I moved on to other things more interesting.

 

[Carbon 6]

Prior to the American revolution, production of things like gunpowder, lead, firearms, etc... in the colonies was highly controlled by the King of England. Most powder was imported.
So making your own then would likely have been illegal, just as it would be today.