Military miquelet pistol? Or......

[LawrenceA]

I have just been lucky enough to score a miquelet pistol.
It is described as Spanish Flintlock Royal Guard 14mm Flintlock.That is it.
Because of the regulations I probably won't see it for months but here are the photos I bought it from.
Can anyone please enlighten me to what I have actually procured?

 

[cositrike]

There’s quite a lot on the internet about them. This one looks original, but difficult to be sure. I believe they were quite widely replicated at one time. Once you have it in hand, some more photos may help. I’m no expert, so others may be more sure.

 

[LawrenceA]

Yes I saw many similar but none the same.
Maybe I am overthinking it as a standard item.
You say they were replicated.
By who and when?? Please?

 

[caspar25]

I fear I am the bearer of bad news
Research under Miquelet
these are the names of the locks
I bought one of these once.
I was very disappointed when it turned out to be a replica.
They all have the same number 3o AN No62
take a look for yourself

Miquelet flintlock pistol



pistola real cuerpo de guardia de la persona del rey - Google-Suche







Miquelet-Schloßpistole, - Jagd-, Sport- und Sammlerwaffen 10.12.2016 - Erzielter Preis: EUR 275 - Dorotheum



​

unknown, spanish manufacturer, model: replica of the pistol of the royal spanish guard ca. 1815 to 1825, cal.: .50', no. 016116, the steel parts bright, smooth, round barrel, at the top of the barrel the coat of arms and the inscription: 'R Cuerpo De Guardia De La Persona Del Rey', the handle made of beech wood, with hinged ramrod, the fittings made of brass, subsequently attached visor, second-hand, very good condition, the metal parts slightly spotted in places, Spanish black powder bullets, this weapon may only be fired with black powder A





Spanish pistol miquelet lock, signed on barrel "R'cuerpo de guardia de la persona del rey ''





Spanish pistol miquelet lock, signed on barrel "R'cuerpo de guardia de la persona del rey ''



Spanish pistol miquelet lock
signed on barrel "R'cuerpo de guardia de la persona del rey ''

replica 1950-1970
quality manufacturing, for black powder shooting

grooved barrel
spring powerful hammer
spring powerful cap
The hammer does not hold the catches.

length: 37 cm
barrel length: 20 cm
calibre : 13 mm

found in an attic,
beautiful presentation for showcase
It looks like has a real one





Antigua pistola de avancarga marcada: Cuerpo guardia persona del rey. desconozco del tema





Old muzzle loading pistol marked: R. King's person guard body. Also marked 30 2A N 0 62.



This exit as it is from a Catalan house, I am totally unaware of the subject... I would not know if it is an original or an old copy. If I have to say something, I am inclined to a copy made at the end of the 19th or beginning of the 20th century. What it is, is that it is not current, it is made in mandera, iron and bronze.



As you can see, the drumstick opens in a curious way.



It came out with a label attached to the side, which I didn't want to touch, so the new owner took it out easily.



It is 37 cm long, and in hand it is beautiful.






ABALARTE SUBASTAS - Pistola de chispa para el cuerpo de la Guardia Real, S. XIX, con inscripción en el cañón,



Pistola Chispa Avancarga Replica Antigua Guardia Persona Rey - $ 11.000,00



Pistola para oficial del Real Cuerpo de Guardias de la Persona del Rey - Réplica Vintage

 

[LawrenceA]

Hmm
Thanks. It is better to know

 

[rickystl]

Hi Lawrence

As Caspar mentions, it's a replica. It is actually a Spanish tourist item. These were made sometime around the mid 20th Century for the Spanish tourist trade. They were never made to fire - and you don't want to attempt it !! You will probably find that even the barrel itself is a casting, and not even bored through all the way. These often show up for sale at various auction houses throughout the USA and Europe. More often than not, even the sellers don't know it's a tourist item. They were made much better than the latter and current crop of tourist pistols from the Middle East. They likely fooled many people. Here are some pics of another variation of pistol made by the same Company. Notice the locks are identical.

Rick

 

[tenngun]

Even before that about 1850 there was a trade in antique arms. Plane military wheelocks got inlays and engraving spanish and North African and Turkish arms got made in little shops across Europe. Fake antiques were big business, and it continues today

 

[toot]

the swivel ramrod was a real red flag give away. they came on BRITISH weapons. and were copied.

 

[LawrenceA]

Thank you so much.
I called the dealer and was able to get my money back.
He said he had a line of people wanting to buy it.

 

[rickystl]

Tenngun is correct. Often referred to by collectors today as Victorian Era copies. During this period (about 1850-1900) antique weapons (considered at that time) were all the rage in Europe with interior decorators. There didn't seem to be enough originals to satisfy the demand. So copies of guns, swords, armor, etc. were all made to/for decorator status. The guns would often include a combination of original and new made parts. These copies often show up at auctions today. Here is a good example of a Victorian era pistol. The lock and hardware are original Spanish pieces. The stock and barrel are later made (at the time) additions. The barrel is simply a piece of decorated pipe with the bore traveling only 2/3rds the length. And the oversize flared muzzle to give it that WOW! effect. LOL

 

[fourbore]

That would have fooled me. I guess the odds are pretty slim any dealer/collector would sell a vistorian repro as such. It is a tough hobby.

 

[toot]

I notice a crack in the muzzle at 4 oclock, also. probeally from stressing the flair.

 

[rickystl]

BUMP !!!

Thought I would post an update to this Thread. This same pistol has come up at an auction. I was under the impression that the OP pistol above was a decorator - only - copy in a similar fashion as mine posted above. But take a look at this Link and notice one of the photos showing the left barrel flat reading: Serial # 20668, black powder only, cal .50. I haven't seen this additional script on the other copies. Wonder if this is a "shootable" version ? Curious.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-replica-spanish-miquelet-pistol-f554c95ab7
Rick

 

[LawrenceA]

BUMP !!!

Thought I would post an update to this Thread. This same pistol has come up at an auction. I was under the impression that the OP pistol above was a decorator - only - copy in a similar fashion as mine posted above. But take a look at this Link and notice one of the photos showing the left barrel flat reading: Serial # 20668, black powder only, cal .50. I haven't seen this additional script on the other copies. Wonder if this is a "shootable" version ? Curious.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-replica-spanish-miquelet-pistol-f554c95ab7
Rick

Hmmm.. It would appear that that is the impression sought.
I would be very wary of it knowing what I do now.

 

[Sam squanch]

The auction miquelet may have been made with a real barrel with unseen flaws. You never know.

 

[TFoley]

A similar 'gun' to this has featured here a couple of years back. Casting of pot metal has a look and feel all of its own, principally in the production of rounded corners and crudely 'incised' so-called engraving. This fake really should not have fooled anybody in this audience.

Note the wording on the newer sales post - '

Item Overview
Description
A fine copy with functioning miquelet lock and brass-mounted wooden stock. Barrel with numerous marks. First half of the 20th century. Minor wear. Overall length 36cm. Condition III

 

[zimmerstutzen]

CVA sold some miquelet pistol reproductions their first couple years in business (1971 to 1974) I have a reproduction in pristine condition with the exact same engraving and it looks very similar. I will have to dig it out tomorrow. I had posted pictures on the net. some years ago. I found the pictures. Exact same markings and script on the barrel. Same gun, although in much newer shape. I see what I believe are Spanish proof marks on the barrel.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

according to the 1971/72 catalog, CVA's miquelet pistols were made by the Spanish factory named Santa Barbara. (patron saint of artillery) BTW Santa Barbara 1858 Remington reproductions are considered some of the highest quality reproductions ever made.

 

[toot]

WOW! I would rely like to have one of them!! never seen any of them advertised.

 

[rickystl]

Hmmm. Zimmer: Does the barrel of your gun include the "black powder only, cal .50" ?

The two I've seen before were identical to the OP's, but did not include the above on the left barrel flat.

Rick