Looking for Historian's Input

[Dave Dolbier]

I'm a new member with a question pertaining to history. I've recently inherited a powder horn that I'm assuming belonged to my great grandfather. I've been interested in muzzle loaders since I was a kid and a Civil War Reenactor visited my school with his replica Springfield Mod. 1863. In an effort to connect to the past, I'm thinking I'd like to build or acquire a muzzle loader that my great grandfather may have owned (likely passed down to him from his father), and use his powder horn to once again fire a muzzle loader. So, I'm not looking for precision, just some advice & insight on what the most popular muzzle loaders were in the Midwest (Wisconsin) around 1875-1880. Hopefully there's someone out there with a love for history as well as black powder. Thanks.

 

[jethro224]

the most popular muzzle loaders were in the Midwest (Wisconsin) around 1875-1880.

You'll get better answers from those more knowledgeable than I am but my guess would be a cheap old Civil War musket that was "sporterized" into a shotgun.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

1875-1880 is a pretty recent time period for muzzleloaders.

By that time, cartridge guns were becoming extremely popular.
That is not to say muzzleloaders weren't used during those years. They were, especially by farmers and others who had inherited the guns.

It's just my opinion but by that time, the flintlock guns were rarely used.

The Civil War had ended 10 years before then and as Jethro says, old civil war rifled muskets in .58 caliber were a dime a dozen. Hundreds of thousands of them were still around and some of them had been rebored to remove the rifling making basically a .58-60 caliber smoothbore.
Of course, there were many of them that remained rifled with their original barrels unmodified.

Rifles from the years before the Civil War were also commonly in use in the Mid West.

These could be either the older style, full stock guns with their stock running out to the muzzle, or the newer style (1830-1860) half-stock guns with the shorter stock exposing half of the barrel.

These rifles were usually smaller bore than the Military guns, often being in the .40 to .50 caliber range.

 

[Captjoel]

From my own families history here in northern Michigan, my grandfather used an English made muzzle loading double barrel shotgun. It was a 14 gauge. Also came with a powder horn that he used to carry lead shot.

 

[cositrike]

The 1841 Mississippi rifle would be an acceptable choice. Just my opinion, but I believe a lot of these went west with the settlers
Simon

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I am in agreement with Jethro...,

Either a sporterized musket into a shotgun, or a sporterized rifle. Something like the 1853 Enfield which also comes in shorter sizes. One could even argue in favor of one of the earlier smooth bore muskets in caplock, again cut down a but and perhaps with a cut down stock. Something like this Harper's Ferry 1816 converted to percussion though this still has the military stock. I'd make sure you like the gun before you have it modified, as if you modify it into a civilian arm, you're pretty much messing with any resale value.

LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

I'm a new member with a question pertaining to history. I've recently inherited a powder horn that I'm assuming belonged to my great grandfather. [strike]I've been interested in muzzle loaders since I was a kid and a Civil War Reenactor visited my school with his replica Springfield Mod. 1863.[/strike] In an effort to connect to the past, I'm thinking I'd like to build or acquire a muzzle loader that my great grandfather may have owned (likely passed down to him from his father), and use his powder horn to once again fire a muzzle loader. So, I'm not looking for precision, just some advice & insight on what the most popular muzzle loaders were in the Midwest (Wisconsin) around 1875-1880. Hopefully there's someone out there with a love for history as well as black powder. Thanks.

I disagree with everyone's posts so far...
Everyone is just guessing and associating the time frame with civil war guns....Generally speaking, powder horns and civil war guns don't go together.

Who was your great grandpa?
where did he live, what did he do?
Did he fight in the civil war....
Do a genealogy on him and contact the state historical society....
If he lived , died, paid taxes, owned property, etc...there are records.

Learn the truth or indulge in pure fantasy the choice is yours....but you only need a historian for one of them.

You said yourself.
a powder horn that I'm assuming belonged to my great grandfather.

If all you are looking for is a fantasy connection, than ANY GUN PRIOR TO 1880 will do.

 

[54ball]

Are you sure it's a powder horn? A hunting or blowing horn (to call the dogs) can look identical. If it has no end plug, it could be a blowing horn.

I'll be the dissenting voice and not recommend CW surplus.

1870s....upper midwest
1. Hardware store "Eastern" Percussion Halfstock. There were about a gazillion rifles built like this many no name and many with back action locks. The calibers are small most around .40 and many below that. These are late period rifles and many can be found in shooting condition.
2. Leman/Conestoga rifle works longrifle. Leman rifles were produced over a large period of time and can be found today many in shooting condition.
3. English/Belgian import double shotgun. Again many can be found today even in shooting condition.
4.Mid West made rifles...a little nicer than the hardware store rifles.....If I was going to build one there's no doubt, it would be a Ohio Vincent in .32 or .36. A Vincent is the most beautiful of American rifles.

Wisconsin shotgun
Wiconsin Rifle

 

[Grenadier1758]

My great grandfather was in Missouri Company H during the Civil War. He left two guns, Springfield muskets that had been bored smooth to 14 gauge and still with a 40 (?) inch barrel. Family lore has it that he owned several cartridge rifles, but the two muskets are all that we have.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Dave,
For general hunting purposes, cartridge guns probably dominated as others have said. Perhaps surplus military guns and muzzleloading shotguns also were popular if you could not afford a breechloader or repeater. However, Wisconsin was also a hotbed of high precision target shooting and the king of that crowd was John Meunier. Meunier made some of the finest muzzleloading target guns ever and he used them all through the 1870s and 1880s.

dave

 

[crockett]

Most of us are focused on pre-1840 so your time slot is at the very end of the muzzle loading era. By that time the only muzzle loaders being turned out were mostly sporting arms from outfits such as Tryon from Philadelphia and similar type outfits. The Henry gunsmiths from Bolton, Pennsylvania are another outfit.
The rifles were percussion lock and had a heavy barrel of 32-36" length and the stock either full or half. In the 1870's U.S. Army scout Littler Bat Garnier was still using such a muzzle loader- that rifle is on display at Ft. Robinson, Crawford, NE. "Sports" in the UP or Adirondacks were using similar firearms.

 

[BrownBear]

Ah.... Substance rather than speculation. Fresh air.

I'd start checking museums in the broad area for other examples. Can't say for sure about up there, but in recent years the online catalogs of museums have been updated a lot. State historical societies might be able to point you to sources.

 

[Artificer]

I'm a new member with a question pertaining to history. I've recently inherited a powder horn that I'm assuming belonged to my great grandfather. I've been interested in muzzle loaders since I was a kid and a Civil War Reenactor visited my school with his replica Springfield Mod. 1863. In an effort to connect to the past, I'm thinking I'd like to build or acquire a muzzle loader that my great grandfather may have owned (likely passed down to him from his father), and use his powder horn to once again fire a muzzle loader. So, I'm not looking for precision, just some advice & insight on what the most popular muzzle loaders were in the Midwest (Wisconsin) around 1875-1880. Hopefully there's someone out there with a love for history as well as black powder. Thanks.

Dave,

Welcome to the forum!

I echo the thoughts of others who suggest finding out information on both your Great Grand Father and perhaps even more importantly - his Father, your GG Grand Father.

A rifle or other gun might be very different according to which generation it came from and whether or not the gun/s were given to your Great Grand Father as he was growing up or if he inherited the gun/s at his Father's death.

Some depends on whether or not your GG Grandfather or Great Grandfather were wealthy. If your GG Grandfather was "well to do enough," he may have purchased a new gun for his son or if not, he may have traded for or purchased an older gun. The gun might also have come from some other family member.

When was your GG Grand Father born and died? Where was he born? If he came from back east, he may or even would have brought a gun or guns with him. What was his occupation both early in life and later, IOW did he live and work in a town or on a farm?

So I strongly suggest adding one earlier generation to the information you should look for, I.E. your GG Grandfather.

Gus

 

[coloradoclyde]

around 1875-1880.

Why such a narrow timeframe?

 

[crockett]

I have a book by Charles Hanson- "The Plains Rifle" that covers some of that period and in this book are a few pages of the Tryon catalog from around the 1870's. I tried to find the same thing on the net but didn't find anything. There is a gun collecting magazine, Man at Arms published by the NRA and that may have some past articles or you could contact some of the gun brokers that advertise in that magazine and ask them what firearms would fit that time frame.

 

[Gene L]

I think we may be throwing a general net over a large population. Perhaps Dave's great grandfather inherited the powder horn. My uncles were still using ML rifles until WW 1. And likely powder horns.

Powder flasks may be more general to CW rifles, but not everyone had or needed them. So were minie balls, but my folks used round bullets cast with an old fashioned mold.

So let's not eliminate anachronisms. They happened.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I have powder horn that I received from my grandfather many years ago and it may have belonged to his father or father in law. I was young and know nothing of its history. The one thing I do is use it. It is unadorned and did not have provisions for a strap. I stitched a leather holder for it and use it with my rifles.

I don't have a fancy custom rifle, but it is fun to load my TC Hawken and other rifles from it. I do remember that it still had a little black powder in it when I received got it more than 50 years ago.

 

[fishmusic]

I am not a Historian. The other guys can quote historic texts but I will go in a slightly different direction. Read "Little House in the Big Woods" by Laura Ingalls Wilder. The book is written for children and is somewhat autobiographical. Laura Ingalls was born in the 1870's.

There is a chapter in there about Pa's long gun. It describes a cap lock rifle, how he cleaned it , molded balls for it and loaded it. Don't know what kind of gun it was but the period is correct for your great grandfather. Do some research and have a lot of fun.

 

[Dave Dolbier]

It was a guess as to when he was of age to acquire a rifle. I've sent a message to my dad with more questions. Mom will have to help him answer - things are slower and tougher for him due to a stroke. Hopefully I'll be able to provide more criteria soon.

 

[Dave Dolbier]

Definitely a powder horn - has powder in it, as well as a ball mold and plenty of shot. I'm waiting for it to be shipped to me so I can measure the caliber of the balls. That should give us more to go on!