Lodge/Awning

Primitive3
Sounds like you have your system down pretty well.

I was going to set the tent up as I have done in the past. I wonder what you think of this.

Put the ridge pole under the center of the tent and have uprights next to it. Lay tent over the ridge and two uprights.

Tie the front flaps together as well as the back flaps so they can be easily tied together when the tent is erected. Stretch tent out so it is squared up. Drive in all bottom stakes making sure the sod cloth is OK.

Next, drive in all wall upright rope stakes about 2/3rds the length of the wall upright away from the tent. Do the same for the front and rear corner stakes.

Put up the side uprights and attach all ropes and lightly snug them up. The tent should stabilize with both side walls erected.

Untie front flaps and crawl under the canvas and attach rear upright to the ridge and raise. The front of ridge pole is still on the ground. Connect front upright and raise the front of the tent. Eyeball for plumb and tighten all guy ropes.

Our fly will overhang the front of the tent by 40 inches and so the fly ridge will also overhang the front of the tent by 40 inches. I think this is going to be the tricky part of the set up and I will see what instructions I get from the manufacturer. Your method may very well for my situation too. Thanks for the tips.

 

[sse]

and when the wind hits 60mph, you are outside

That happened to me once, too. I was pop-up camping up in Canada, sitting under my awning, looking at a fairly tranquil lake. Saw the clouds a coming but ignored them. One swooping gust and up and over she goes, poles, stakes and all. Good thing I didn't have the screen room set up or it would have torn everything up pretty good, I reckon.

Regards, sse

 

[Kenney Moore]

Howdy,
When you go to get under the canvas leave the bottom tied and step thru the doorway. This will keep the tent more stable when you go up with the ridge. Since you have a front and rear door, you might be able to raise the ridge from outside rear and front doors.
Your method sounds real good except by lifting the rear upright all the way with the front upright on the ground, I think you will be putting a bad twist on your ridge pole.
This will eventually cause something to bend or break. If you just went up part way with the rear upright and then a little with the front and back to the rear and so forth, it would lessen the strain on the ridge pole, both uprights and the connecting pins.
I'm not trying to complicate your life, just make it easier. :imo:

The fly ridgepole only has to overlap the front of the tent roughly less than 9 inches. It depends on how you support that end of the ridgepole at the tent. We extent the front upright pin on the tent thru the tent canvas and just shy of extending clear thru the fly ridgepole. This prevents rust on the fly. The ridge pole is drilled with a slightly larger drillbit than the pin to allow the ridgepole to fit on the tent upright pin.
Your instructions that come with your tent should give you a good idea for fly to tent connection.

 

[Gordon Horn]

Great posts, folks! I have'nt read anything there that I don't think I could do, if I keep the size/weight of the tent down to managable, for me. Very good descriptions of the proceedures. Even I could understand them. :RO:

Flatlander

 

Ah, yes, you are right. This is a bigger tent and the ridge pole will be heavier and longer. That may contribute to some unwanted flexing or twisitng. Thanks. Good tip.

The way the fly will be made to match the tent, a 40" overlap lines up all the seams and uprights with the front 40" of the tent. Now this is my understanding of how Al explained it me. I will of course verify everything. I am ordering it on Monday. I am a bit leery of the long ridge pole for the fly. Once the peices are put together and the steel sleeves are in place, that suckers going to be heavy. I am hoping that if I huff and puff I will be able to get 'er done. My wife has MS and I can't always be sure that I will have help with the whole thing.

We have a 20' x 12' awning on our back deck. It has walls all the way around. When we entertain out there, we need all of that space so I am afraid to go much smaller on the fly for this tent. Ah, to be able to simply rough it! ha!

 

[Kenney Moore]

Howdy,
We are all in this together. I have never been to a camp where everyone is willing to pitch in and lend a hand. This is the reason many of us are in this living history camping, because you are never alone.
Just a quick note about setting up your fly. When setting it up, do so without the walls attached. Otherwise it will be too heavy to lift.
Did your tentmaker mention that you will need a pole and rope at each seam along the sides of the fly for support? When we set up our fly without the side curtins we only use 3 poles per side, but when we add a side curtin we have to add 4 additional poles to the side where the curtin is so the fly won't sag.
I dont mean to keep rambling on, but these are things we had not figured on when we got our wall tent that would have been nice to know about. Our tentmaker, Tentsmith, had included this in their paperwork, but I had missed it.
Hope this helps.

 

Primitive3

This is axactly the kind of info I was looking for. Trying to remember back to my conversation with Al at Spring Valley, I believe there is a loop for an upright every 40" and that is why the fly will overlap the front of the tent by 40". The seams are every 40".

I couldn't imagine trying to lift the fly with the walls attached. The walls are detacthable and would only be used when the weather calls for it. Stopping a cold wind or rain will make it cozy under the fly. We like the fly to be open whenever possible so it feels more inviting for others to come in and sit a spell with us and taste something warming. A lot of our flatlander friends just like to day visit and of course camp neighbors are the greatest.

I am making the phone call tomorrow, Monday, and hope I can get it in time for the first of May. I want to break it in in at the Chatfield, MN rondy. Thanks for all the tips and ideas.

 

Primitive3

I just ordered all our stuff. I made some changes for the better too, I think.

The tent will only have 4 foot walls because I can get the ridge pole uprights in the back of my Suburban as they will only be 7-1/2 feet tall. I don't see a problem with 4 foot walls because the beds and storage would be along them anyway.

And we hashed out the fly situation. Instead of the 40 inch overlap, they can do "chicken wings" for me. These are tapered flaps that will seal the gap between the fly and front of the tent.

But I did find out that they prefer to sew the walls into the fly. He says I should still be able to set it up by myself with no problem. He also says to set up the fly first and then the tent.

With the ridge pole sleeves, I can get the ridge poles for both the tent and fly in my truck. When we get a trailer, all of these problems will be solved though.

And the best thing is all of this will be ready way before the first rondy we want to go to in early May.

I ended up ordering a 4-dog stove for under the fly. He recommended that size for what we do and the size of the fly.

I can't wait and I appreciate your advice and tips. Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Kenney Moore]

Howdy,
Sounds real good. We have 4' side walls on our wall tent and have no problems with them. I don't know how to set the fly up first then the tent. Guess it's where ever you grow up and learn how to set up a camp is what you use.
Do I read you right, you will not have an overlap? We have fellows in our camp that use the overlap and the chicken wings. The only bad thing about having the side curtins sewn on is they have to be used everytime you set up. If it is late Spring or early Fall, it can be hot at times.
We went with a trailer a couple of years ago and have not looked back. It is nice when you can pack up dry and not have to worry about anything for next time but to wash your used clothing and re-supply your food. We replaced the thin paneling on the sides with 3/4" and put pole racks on one side so we can seperate our poles for our 3 tents. If you are looking to get a manufactured trailer, be sure to get one with a side door as well as rear doors. The side door comes in mighty handy. We also built shelves in the front of ours for tentage, ironware, etc.
Hope this helps. :m2c:

 

Primitive3

The nice thing about not having to deal with the 40 inch overlap is not having to line up the front and second from the front tent uprights with the end of the fly. But what they suggest we do is to just move the tent as far under the fly as we want, making a 12 inch overlap should be plenty adequate, especially with the chicken wings.

The walls from the fly will roll up and tie in place so they should be out of the way when not used. It will be interesting!

I can't believe it! Almost very weekend 12 of us get together and have a party of some kind. Well this past Saturday one couple asked me if I would want to use their 12 foot covered trailer for going to rondy. WOW! My eyes almost popped. It has a side door too. He uses it for racing go carts during the summer and is done with it in Sept. Racing doesn't start until June. This means all the rondys I want to attend I will have a trailer for.

I offered to store their trailer and their camper in my buildings which will save them money and now it's a win-win for all four of us.

Friends are a true gift!!!

 

[Kenney Moore]

Howdy,
Sounds like you have your bases covered very well.
I was not questioning your camp set-up in any way.
The main thing is to go enjoy.
Hope one of these days we can cross trails.

Good Luck with the new camp. :thumbsup:

 

Primitive3

Never took it that way at all. An open mind is half the battle won. Thanks for your tips because I did question some things I was told and I got better answers the second time around!

Everything except the stove is supposed to be ready for pick up in 20 days. Then I need to get my uprights, ridgepoles and ropes.

See ya 'round the fire sometime!

 

[Kenney Moore]

Howdy,
You mentioned uprights and ridge pole. I went to a sawmill and the sawyer got all of my poles for my tent and fly out of one board. I only use poplar for my poles and ridges. It is strong and lightweight and with a good couple coats of paint will last for years. I use 2 sleeves for my ridge poles and had both of these powder coated. (Not much cost for the benefit of no rust.) On the sleeves we welded a loop before the power coating for hanging a candle lantern in the tent or a candalier under the fly. All of my uprights are a full 2" X 2" square and not cut to the standards of today. I used 3/8" rod, 6 " long driven into the tops of the tent side poles and fly outside poles and let them protrude 3" out. For the main uprights I used 1/2" diameter, 8" long for the rear tent upright, (away from the fly) it sticks up 2-1/2" so it will not reach the tent fabric at the ridge. The front tent, (at the fly/tent union) the 1/2" rod is 10" long and sticks out 5-1/2" so it can go thru the tent ridge, the tent fabric and up thru the fly ridge and not get to the fly fabric. The fly upright rod is 1/2" and is 12" long and protrudes 6" so I can use this rod that sticks up thru the ridge pole for set up ropes. My ridges are full 2" X 3". I used a jointer to true up and smooth the sides and soften the corners on the upright poles. I used a draw knife and jack plane to round over the top of the ridge poles.
We use 3/8" ropes with sliders and we braided an iron ring into the end away from the slider. We use this to drive the iron stake thru.
I know this sounds like overkill, but I do not want to replace the poles any time soon.
There I go with talkin to much. I just enjoy this hobby and want anyone that is the least bit interested to enjoy it without going thru the hassels we did before we got this system down.

Hope these points help and are useful in some small way.

See ya!!

 

[Gordon Horn]

Keep right on talkin' I'm learnin' tons of stuff here. I've never even seen anyone set up one of these tents before. Can someone tell me what exactly the sod cloth does and what is used for flooring, if any?

Got about everything else I need to vous except a lodge. I'm glad to learn all I can before I start shopping so I'll probably be askin more silly questions.

Thanks!
Flatlander

 

[Kenney Moore]

I've never even seen anyone set up one of these tents before. Can someone tell me what exactly the sod cloth does and what is used for flooring, if any?

Howdy,
No appoligies are necessary. If you want to learn something and someone has the knowledge or think they can make an attempt at answering your question, I feel it improves our hobby to make the attempt. It at least gets the idea out in the open so maybe someone that is better informed can take a stab at answering it.
The sod cloth acts like a seal from the outside to the inside of the tent. It is usually 10" to 12" in width and is sewn onto the bottom of the walls of the tent. It is laid out flat on the ground from the wall to the inside. If a person uses a tarp, plastic, or something like rubber roofing and then canvas as flooring in their tent, the rubber is put down and then the canvas is laid on top of the sod cloth to make a seal. Then if it rains the rain will be directed under the flooring if it runs under the tent. I know there are times when it rains so hard this does not help, but usually it works very well.

I know the PC police will raise an eyebrow at the mere mention of plastic or rubber, but, oh well. LOL

Hope this answers your question at least in part.

See ya!!

 

[OTHERN]

This maybe(I hope) a good place to post this tidbit of info.
The best floor for a tent that I have found(NOT PERIOD CORRECT)is the plastic from an old billboard. As you drive down the road and see all those ads on billboards, they are made from a very strong and heavy duty plastic that is white on the reverse side. I got mine free for the taking, but now they are charging around $20 for one around here. They are 14 or 16 ft by 40 if I remember,so will make 2 or 3 floors and last forever.

 

[Kenney Moore]

Howdy,
Never heard about that, but it just goes to show you how resourceful we can be. I started using rubber roofing membraine like they put down on commercial sites. It works well, being not noisey, self healing to a degree, etc.
I use this at non PC events or ones that the organizers are not real picky.
I will keep my eyes open for some of what you speak. :hmm:

 

Primitive3

Your lodge and fly should not blow away even if it was set up in Fla when they had their nasty weather!

I am to cut my fly ridgeploes about 2 feet than the fly so the fabric does not get rubbed by the end of the ridgepole. For the tent, the ridgepole is all inside and uses no pins going through the fabric. However, I have made note of your diameter and length of the pins you have made for your wall uprights. In the sketches they have sent me, they are showing pins on both ends of the uprights. One for the loop at the bottom of the tent wall and I assume it helps stabilize the fly walls even though they are just tied to the sides of the uprights.

Your lumber sounds good. I know that is light weight yet strong wood. We are supposed to use 2x4s for the ridepoles and ridgepole uprights. I don't know if I could poplar but I have several lumber yards in the area and will ask about it. I like the idea of poplar.

For my wall uprights (tent and fly) I am thinking about ordering some lodge pole pine, 2 inches in daimeter and stripped of its bark. I would seal with a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil and turpentine.

What color did you paint your ridgepoles and their uprights?

And having those sleeves powder coated is an excellent idea. I would have to find out who does something like that around here. But that is the way to go. Same with the lantern loops. Our thought was to also make from small diameter rod some Z shaped hooks that could fit into horizontal holes drilled in the ridge pole. I am talking like 1/4 inch holes and maybe 3/8 inch rod. The top and side of the Z would be at 90 degrees to each other but the bottom of the Z would be bent up at about a 45 degree angle. Even in a wind, the lanterns and clothing and whatever else should stay on the hook because it would want to tilt the item toward the ridgepole.

Both ideas for a ground cloth are great but the rubber roofing membrane in outstanding for me because I can roll it up. It is heavier than the nylon tarp I was going to use but tougher. I am going to end up with a painter's tarp for ground cloth unless Spring Valley can close a deal quick enough and manufacture ground cloths custom made for the lodge. I would like that!

I also found out that I can drop the fly walls half way (2 feet) and tie them in place. So unless there is a lot of wind, I can still have air moving under the fly.

I have seen a lot of guys using the metal ring for the stakes. I forgot that I wanted to do that. Thanks for reminding me.

I have to head down to Illinois for the Easter weeknd and there is a chance all of this could be ready for excpet maybe the wood stove. He is going to try and rush that order. Tent is done and he is confident the fly will be no problem. I may be able to pick it up on the way back through Wisc.

Thanks again for the ideas. As you said, the more questions and the more answers we post, the more questions and answers will be thought of.

 

[Kenney Moore]

Howdy,
I don't worry so much about the fly rubbing on the end of the fly ridgepole as I used a plane to round over the top end and sanded it smooth. I have not seen any appreciable wear on the fly and we have been using this system since 1999. I am just stating what we have done and not trying to discredit a person who makes tents for a living.
We used a pale forest green for our poles. Sorry for the description, but that is what I would call it. We got the idea for the color by checking out the Williamsburg sites and keeping our eyes open. Colonial colors are not as bright and shiny as what we are used to today. They have more of a dull sheen to them. They are more leaning towards base colors and not exotic mixtures.
From experience do not paint the ridge poles that go into the sleeves unless you have undercut the part that goes into the sleeve enough to allow for paint and swelling due to moisture. Also, just thought about this, drill 2 holes thru the fly sleeve and the ridgepole inserts from side to side to allow for metal pins to be inserted so the ridge pole will not be able to pull apart in high winds or when a buddy accidently leans on the fly upright. LOL The holes I drilled are just a little bit larger than 1/4". I made my pins out of 1/4" brass and made them into an 'L' shape and put a small hole in the end that sticks thru so I could put a keeper pin thru each one. I know this sounds like overkill, but I do not worry when the wind picks up. Your tent ridgepole does not need this because it is held from sliding apart with your tent.
Hope this helps.

 

Primitive3

No suggestion or tip you have offered has ever been taken as criticizm or discredit to anyone. You have your act together and have been very helpful. Everything you say is from experience and you are helping my learning curve. My wife and I have camped in various tents and RV for 30 years but I have never owned so much canvas and intend to make it last and do whatever I can to make set-up easier, safer and secure. You tips have been very helpful.

I think I will round off the ends of the fly ridgepole anyway and for sure I will be pinning both fly ridgepole sleeves.

I may just have enough early American colors already. I was given a ton of paint in all kinds of colors a few years ago. And I have given away some of the early type colors. That that light green would look nice. Thanks.

Did a smith make your stake rings or did you get them at a local hardware store? Approximate inside diameter?

I just picked up my friend's trailer today and she's a beauty. Very nicely made and he is thinking about getting a smaller one for racing his tricked out go carts. So it may be up for sale at a reasonable price and I have been promised first shot at it. Who knows, maybe this year will be a good one after all! ha!