Loads for a .58

[sequoia]

I was looking at a .58 smoothbore trade gun at a rendezvous recently. I was told that it was 24 gauge. What kind of loads would you use for this gun for roundball and shot loads?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Other than replica "Trade Guns", you don't see a lot of 24 gauge smooth bores these days, so finding loading data can be difficult. You do want to read the information found on Bob Spencer's Site on ML shotguns.
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/starr.html

As for SHOT loads: My Hodgdon Data manual has loading data for the 20 gauge, and the 28 gauge, but not for the 24 gauge! However, since its between the two and we are talking a gun that uses ONLY BLACK POWDER as a propellant, its not too hard to find a load between the two other gauges for the 24 gauge.

A "Heavy" load in the 28 gauge( .550" caliber) is 2 drams( 55 grains) of FFg powder, behind 3/4 oz. of shot.

Going to the 20 gauge data, a "LIGHT" load in the 20 gauge(.615" caliber) is 2 drams( 55 grains) of FFg powder behind a 3/4 oz. load of shot.

So, for your 24 gauge( .579" caliber) a 2 dram load of FFg behind a 3/4 oz. load of shot should be a "Medium" load.

Reduce the shot charge by 1/8 oz.( to 5/8 oz.) and you get a "light Load" in the 24 gauge.

Increase the powder charge to 2 1/4 drams(61 grains) and the shot load to 7/8 oz. and you have a "HEAVY" load for the 24 gauge gun.

Remember that trade guns are normally fairly light in weight, so they are going to really give you recoil if you increase either the powder charge or the shot load very much. As they are usually cylinder bore, their effective hunting range will normally be 25 yards. Don't try to make that 24 gauge gun into a 12 gauge shotgun.

There is Lots of loading data for Single Projectiles in .58 caliber guns( mostly for rifles), but REMEMBER that these guns come in total gun weights from the light weight, short barreled Trade Guns( like yours) on up to heavy "Hawken-style RIFLED guns that can weight over 12 lbs.

Don't pretend to use heavy loads out of a light weight gun of any kind. The recoil is hard on the stock, and parts, as well as the shooter's shoulder.

A 24 gauge Smooth bore is Not going to reach out there very far, ( 75-80 yards maximum effective game range using iron sights ) before the RB begins to deviate from the POA badly. Without rifling to impart a spin to the RB, The poor Ballistics Coefficient of ALL ROUND BALLS is going to slow that ball down rapidly. At 50 yards, you can expect 25% of the Muzzle velocity to be lost. At 80 yard, you will lose another 10-15% of the original MV.

Within those range yardages, however, that Lead Round Ball( LRB) is going to effectively take deer -sized game quite well. Stick with using ONLY Lead ROUND BALLs in that light Trade gun. A smooth bore gun is not going to shoot any bullet very accurately.

Use FFg Black Powder, and start at about 60 grains, and work up from there, to find your Most Accurate Load.

For hunting, Concentrate on finding the Most ACCURATE load that your gun, and YOU, can shoot. With any smooth bore gun, its all about accurate ball placement- not velocity.

That heavy .56-.58 Cal. RB is going to smack right through most deer, and even Elk-sized game, Killing them DRT( Dead right there!). MV does Not have to be very fast for balls this diameter to kill a deer or Elk at 50-80 yards.

On this forum, members using .58 caliber guns have submitted loading information that runs from 65 grains, on up to 120 grains, depending on the gun they are shooting. My Hodgdon Data Manual shows a 70 grains charge of FFg powder behind a RB will give 1054 FPS MV. I don't know what length barrel they are using for this data.

Data I have noted from members here indicate that in their Guns, 80 grains will deliver 1302 fps. MV; 90 grain= 1373 fps. MV; and 100 grains= 1428 fps. Again, I don't have barrel lengths for the gun used to create this data, but out at 50-80 yards, no deer or elk is going to know the difference between the remaining velocity of a RB fired at 1302, or 1428 fps. from the muzzle.

USING MORE POWDER should be based on two factors with your particular gun:

1. How much flatter is the trajectory( arc of the bullet at mid-range) going to be by increasing the amount of powder; and

2. How much more accurate is the load using MORE powder than one that uses less powder.

A final factor, always present with big bore guns, is How much does the load RECOIL with that gun against YOUR shoulder. We all understand that recoil works against accurate placement of RBs on game in the field- FLINCHING(anticipating recoil and jerking the sights off target POA)-- is how that happens.

To prepare yourself Mentally to use this gun for hunting any game, Do some COMPARISON PENETRATION testing with the gun, and any other gun you have more experience with hunting and taking game.

I have not found a hunter who uses a modern high power Breechloading rifle who was not shocked when the penetration of his favorite load in any test medium is surpassed by the lead RBs fired out of one of our BP Big Bore caliber guns.

And, I have never found a BP shooter who wasn't also shocked to find out that a RB fired with a lot more powder does Not penetrate further than the same ball fired with a "target" load.

I tested my new .50 cal. rifle some 30 years ago, when it was new, using two different powder charges behind a .490" cal. PRB: 60 and 100 grains of FFFg powder. Both balls passed through 6- 1" pine boards, spaced 1 inch apart, and bruised the face of the 7th board. The latter ball actually appeared to be stuck into the wood, but as soon as I touched the lead, it fell off the board and went to the bottom of the box. Both balls had been flattened and were nearly identical in diameter.

By Comparison, I shot a modern .30-06 180 grain jacketed soft point, commercially-loaded, round into the same penetration test box, and that bullet stopped at the 6th board. It left the muzzle of my rifle at over 2600 fps. It also flattened out a lot, leaving only a part of the base of the bullet where you could see the lands and grooves of the rifling still visible on the copper jacket that remained.

Oh, two Rifle calibers DID send Lead BULLETS further through the box, than my .50 caliber, shooting RB. A .45-70 sent a 400 gr.bullet thru 10 boards and into the 11th; and a .50-140-550 Sharps rifle sent a 550 gr.cast lead bullet through all 12 boards( and spaces) and key-holed into a railroad tie behind the box, embedding itself sideways into the tie about 3/4 ".

We were able to dig the bullet out of the tough pine wood ties using axes and knives. Both bullets maintained their shape much better than we expected. :hmm: :thumbsup:

If you do the penetration testing with your Trade gun, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at just how powerful a hunting caliber you have, and will go into the field with much more confidence than you may have now. I think you will also find that you don't need to try to load that gun with lots of powder to be able to kill game effectively at the ranges where this gun is effective. Most Whitetail deer are killed at range of less than 50 yards, BTW, with all kinds and calibers of guns. :hmm: The iron sights actually contribute more to the inability of the shooter to take game at longer distances, than does recoil.

 

[Britsmoothy]

My 58 Enfield smoothbore shoots an ounce of shot and just cards above and below the shot just fine to 30yds with about 7/8ths the volume of powder to shot.

90grn equiv of rs pyrodex and a tight linen patch around a .563 ball gives me good hunting to 50yds.

Brits.