Loading Direct From Horn or Flask

[mooman76]

I used to before I realized it was dangerous so I don't anymore. I also realize it is an odd occurance that "probably" wouldn't happen but it is such an easy task anyway, why take a chance.

 

[pripley]

First let me say I don't load direct from the flask or powder can, it first goes into an adjustable measure with a swinging funnel top.

That is good, don't stop.

That said, has anyone on here personally witnessed a flask go off from loading direct into a muzzle loader, and even more rare likely, has anyone seen a flask go off from priming direct to a flint pan.

I have not, but a few others certainly have.

As I inspect my touch hole after a shot and see the smoke wafting out of the vent, with hot brass raining down on my head from the guys and gals shooting up zombie pictures with their high capacity magazines next to me, I think it is a good idea to follow the established safety rule of separating your main powder supply from the hot barrel of your gun, and the hot brass raining down. I only take a minimum amount of powder and prime to the range and keep it separated as much as possible from hot stuff.

 

[Sharps1863]

I have with the brass powder flask with a measured grain spout on it. Hold your thumb over the spout and turn it down push the latch, let off the latch and turn it back up. Dumped it in the rifle. But now since I'm older and not as dumb, I use a separate home made horn loader to pour the powder in 1st. But still have my push spouts on my powder horn with a pre-measured grain spout on it. I just find that easier than pulling and replacing the plug. :grin:

 

[Billnpatti]

I don't remember for sure where I saw a series of pictures of a can of powder blowing up when someone was pouring powder directly into a rifle from a can. It may have been a past issue of Muzzle Blasts. Anyway, as I remember it, one person was taking some pictures as a friend was loading his rifle while sitting on the tailgate of his truck. For whatever reason, he was loading the powder directly from either his horn or his can. The container blew up and seriously injured him and badly burned his friend who was sitting next to him. Like I say, I don't remember whate publ;ication it was in but suspect it was an issue of Muzzle Blasts from a few years back. You could contact NMLRA and ask if they remember the article. If not Muzzle Blasts, it could have been in Muzzle Loading Magazine. I know it was one of the muzzleloading publications a few years back. Does anyone on the forum remember seeing it?

 

[tg]

I see no reason to use a small priming flask or anything but the main powder source to prime a flinter after all the breech is recently filled with fresh powder so there would be no danger of a cook off by the time one primes, we do not hear of many problems not probably due to the fact that 200-300 years ago folks learned the hard way why a seperate measure was a good way to go and few now challange the age old wisdom of the seperate chargeing measure method.

I do not know about the danger of a drop of sweat in a pot of molten lead but personal experience when putting a new closet flange on a sewer pipe 30 years ago made me a believer in keeping liquid lead and water seperate. I would have lost one or both eyes had I not been wearing a full face shield, as they say, pee in the lead pot if you wish, just give me a chance to be elsewhere.

 

[Bob E]

I have witnessed perhaps a dozen or so cook-offs shooting in N-SSA competitions in 35 yrs. Its happened to me personally twice. Its unnerving because the combustion can occur while charging the barrell or after the bullet has entered the bore. We dont allow charging from flasks,cans or horns, so I havent had the misfortune of witnessing an explosion of that magnitude. I hope you dont either. Cheers! Bob E


I forgot to mention.. We use premade, premeasured cartridges.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've never seen it occur as I've never shot in a group where it was allowed. ;-)

 

[hawkeye2]

A big +1 ant bee! I've been shooting in the N-SSA for 27 years and have seen one heck of a lot of cook offs any one of which would have ignited a powder container if one had been in use. We shoot almost shoulder to shoulder, would any of you like to be 2 feet away from a pound of powder exploding?

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I have not personally witnessed or experienced a "cook off", let alone a flask or horn detonation. However, bearing in mind that only a minority of modern shooters that frequent forums such as this do load or have loaded directly from the horn or flask, I have read sufficient first- and second-hand accounts over the years from or about this minority to satisfy me that there is a non-zero real possibility of this happening, whether or not it takes special circumstances to cause it. If that is not sufficient, there are numerous accounts from the 19th century of horrific accidents when loading directly from a flask (often in a high volume fowling context - pigeons, ducks, etc.), and admonitions and reminders to sportsmen to load "from the hand" not "from the flask" - i.e. to measure with the flask but pour the charge into the off-hand for transfer to the barrel.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Darkgael]

has anyone on here personally witnessed a flask go off from loading direct into a muzzle loader, and even more rare likely, has anyone seen a flask go off from priming direct to a flint pan(?)]

That was the OP question.....the guy wanted to know how many first hand accounts there are from members of this forum. He never said that he was going to do it or that it was safe. Out of 29 posts, there are four that answer the question.
Just sayin' there's a lot of talk that doesn't answer the question.
Pete

 

[Dean2]

I have witnessed perhaps a dozen or so cook-offs shooting in N-SSA competitions in 35 yrs. Its happened to me personally twice. Its unnerving because the combustion can occur while charging the barrel or after the bullet has entered the bore. We dint allow charging from flasks,cans or horns, so I haven't had the misfortune of witnessing an explosion of that magnitude. I hope you don't either. Cheers! Bob E


I forgot to mention.. We use premade, pre measured cartridges.

Ant bee and Hawkeye 2, that is exactly the type of first hand proof I was looking to find. It confirms my present practice of using a separate measure is both good for load accuracy and safety too. Thanks for sharing your personal experience. I don't personally have to see something happen as long as I can find CREDIBLE first hand experience that has, and you two certainly fit that bill. Thanks again..


Pete D I appreciate that you truly got the point of the question. Thanks.

 

[GeezerD]

I don't think it is a matter of weather or not there were at least 3 or more credible witnesses to an event to make it a valid concern. -------------------- GeezerD

 

[Rat Trapper]

I have often wondered what the purpose of the measure attached to the horn/flask was if you did not intend to pour straight down the barrel? I do have a flask that allows me to insert the measure in the bottom before I push the button to fill it. I like that set up very much.

 

[crockett]

Hey Dean2: I take it you are looking for some good data. As LaBonte said there are a couple of accounts in the mountain man journals of powder horns exploding from pouring directly into the barrel. Off hand I'd say there are about 10-20 of these diaries that were written and just about every party of trappers in the mountains are covered by at least one or two of these journals.
I think the estimate of European descent trappers at any one time in the mountains was around 300 to maybe 600 in the biggest years and the accidents that were recorded were about 3 or 4 so figure one out of 100 or maybe one out of 200 suffered this type of accident.
Personally, I think this is a pretty high percentage because the mountain men had a limited amount of powder and ball and weren't shooting off rounds just for fun.
In more recent times this was covered a year or so ago and a photo was posted of a hand after a horn exploded and it was a pretty ugly sight.
So....can you get away with it for a while, probably. If you are being charged by a grizzly bear should you just reload asap- yeah. But is there a risk to the practice that is unacceptable? IMHO yes. It is true that there aren't many current day examples but that is because today no one loads that way. The evidence seems to suggest that if you make it a practice you lkely run at least a 1% chance of blowing off your hand eventually.
Finally, I'm not a member of the "safety police" During muzzle loader season I leave my rifle loaded and de-capped and cased at night rather than unloading each day and on a percussion revolver I load 6 not 5 with the hammer on an unloaded chamber, but when it comes to reloading from a flask- the historical evidence is pretty solid that an accident can definately occur, it is not worth the risk.
If time is the issue, carry a flask with a spout carrying what ever size charge you shoot, say 100 grains; AND, also carry a seperate measure. The flask gives you a rapidly measured charge that only takes a second to transfer to the seperate measure that is then poured into the bore.

 

[necchi]

The flask gives you a rapidly measured charge that only takes a second to transfer to the seperate measure that is then poured into the bore.

Why not just pour the 100grns onto your open palm, then down the bore?

 

[tg]

"Just sayin' there's a lot of talk that doesn't answer the question.
Pete"

That is common, particuarly if a post is of a safety related nature, some responses are usefull even if not spot on to the questions, opthers not so much.There are generaly a few who need to tell the rest of us that people are not giving answers specific to the question, these post fall into the same catagory that they condemn in reallity.It is just how the internet forums function for the most part.

 

[CrackStock]

Sorry if my earlier answer was off topic. I am careful about safety and want to give my best.

As a Rev War reenactor, I have personally seen Besses and Charlevilles cook off into waxed paper cartridges which blackened the shooter's fingertips on several occasions. Had the shooter been using a flask or horn near that muzzle rather than a cartridge, the result would surely have been more serious that singed fingers.

I have never seen any such situation while priming. Not suggesting that any large capacity item be used for this purpose, but just that I have not such an event in person.

CS

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I don't personally have to see something happen as long as I can find CREDIBLE first hand experience that has, and you two certainly fit that bill.

So for you, only first-hand experience is reliable evidence of something? There is no such thing as a reliable historical account?

Regards,
Joel

 

[Dean2]

Reliable historical accounts by first hand observation, from a credible source is just fine too. Up till now though, there were none that I had ever run across or read. The info provided by some in this post will give me a place to look so thanks to those re the Trapper Diaries etc.

That said, I easily recall the number of first hand experience articles, about hands on use of a new gun, bullet or equipment, written in shooting magazines by their writers. These have often proved to be very lopsided first hand accounts, more interested in pleasing advertisers than providing a full and factual account. Someone reading these articles 200 years from now might be fooled into believing they are an accurae historical account. Just because someone saw it first hand and even wrote it down, does not make it necessarily true or accurate.

 

Reliable historical accounts by first hand observation, from a credible source is just fine too. Up till now though, there were none that I had ever run across or read. The info provided by some in this post will give me a place to look so thanks to those re the Trapper Diaries etc.

That said, I easily recall the number of first hand experience articles, about hands on use of a new gun, bullet or equipment, written in shooting magazines by their writers. These have often proved to be very lopsided first hand accounts, more interested in pleasing advertisers than providing a full and factual account. Someone reading these articles 200 years from now might be fooled into believing they are an accurae historical account. Just because someone saw it first hand and even wrote it down, does not make it necessarily true or accurate.

You have presented a good case for you loading directly from a can of powder. Go for it and stay in touch. :v