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Load only five of six chambers?

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Poor Private said:
And those of you who are citing "accidents" with the load 6 got shot with one is all word of mouth. None of you have provided any type of provenance wether-books, magazines, newpapers, or modern media(TV, radio), for those of us to look up as reference. It's all my buddy said, my cousin said, my dad told me, my neighbor told me.

Death by dropped firearm is not an urban legend:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8083006
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/10/dropped_gun_causes_death.html
http://www.dailyregister.com/news/...ccidentally-dropped-gun-killed-Equality-woman
http://goshennews.com/breakingnews/x740878347/Goshen-girls-shooting-death-ruled-a-tragic-accident
www.alaskainjurylawgroup.com/lawyer-attorney-1274949.html
www.khou.com/home/116381244.html
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/7507/rule-5/
http://www.wyff4.com/r/20012333/detail.html
 
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CaptainKirk said:
Geraldo said:
I load five if I'm carrying it, but then I don't carry less than three C&B revolvers for defense.
:dead:

Defense against who? Confederate marauders? :rotf:
Why not save weight and carry 1 Glock?

I am an ambidextrous midwesterner in Confederate territory. :blah:

I prefer to avoid gunshot wounds, especially self-inflicted ones, so I load five. If others want to slap that gator every day to see how long they can get away with it, have at it.
 
Matchlock72 said:
You may feel safe carrying 6, but for the sake of the people around you, be as safe as you can be. :shake:
If this gun is not your primary self defense weapon, then its not going to hurt you to have an empty chamber. :doh:
Now if you find yourself in a war then by all means load it for bear and carry 6.... guns that is. :grin:

Why did you address your post to me? I've promoted 5 shots throughout the whole thread.
 
Poor Private said:
Ok lets think this through logically then:
Your pistol has 6 chambers then you only load 5 ROA, 1960, 1851, 1858 all for example, for safety sake..
LeMat 9 shot so only load 8, whoops there is a shotgun barrel underneath so don't load that either.
Then also following this same rule we load the following Patterson, Pocket Pistols, 5 chambers- load 4.
Which leads to the Howdah 2 chambers load 1, but still unsafe since hammer is on the second barrel. So no loading at all.
Single shot percussion don't load them at all either since hammer rest on the nipple examples- LePage, Kentucky, underhammers.
So com'on guys lets get real. Anything you have or carry-pocket knife, pencil,handgun, ink pen, fingernail clipper be dangerous, and accidents do happen.
And those of you who are citing "accidents" with the load 6 got shot with one is all word of mouth. None of you have provided any type of provenance wether-books, magazines, newpapers, or modern media(TV, radio), for those of us to look up as reference. It's all my buddy said, my cousin said, my dad told me, my neighbor told me.
Now lets go futher yet. Those of you who hunt with exposed hammers on your double barreled shot guns I bet don't have empty chambers under the hammers, or even those of you who carry single shot shot guns.
How about those revolving modern guns such as the Judge, and the Circut Judge, or even a bit futher back the revolving Colt, and Remington Rifles?


First modern designs, some going back to the 19th century, are safe with 6 having hammer blocks or transfer bars that prevent firing pin contact with the primer unless the trigger is actually pulled.
The difference in a revolver and a percussion pistol is that there is a valid option to not have the hammer on a cap.
Older firearms are not as safe as modern ones. It is possible to make a percussion or flint pistol/longarm safe but making a leather cover for the frizzen. Or a metal nipple cover for percussion guns. Many English flint, percussion and cartridge hammer guns have safeties that do an excellent job of locking the tumbler/hammer. I have a flint rifle with a safety build from Rifle Shoppe castings.
Also long guns are less prone to falling accidents than pistols and revolvers.
I was in a cafe years ago a retired FBI agent and his son-in-law (a friend and gunsmith) were seated backs to me about 15 ft away they were seated along a wall 90 degrees to one I was seated next to me.
In groping in his pocket the retired FBI agent dislodged his .38 double derringer. Holster and all when it struck the floor hammer first it fired. The bullet passed up between the two and out the ceiling. A piece of the holster was directly inline with me and the gun so I discreetly felt for blood but found none.
The cafe got REALLY quiet for 20-30 seconds.
This firearm has ALL the dangers of an old school revolver.
So while you may choose to disparage the idea of firearms falling and firing if you like. The "carry five" is a very old rule it came down to me, long after I started abiding by it, from a story told to my father by my G-Grandfather who was a real cowboy in the old west. He told of riding the cattle trains to KC to party then riding the empty cars back. He told of a guy who could put five rounds in a telephone pole as the train passed it. Five rounds. Dad is not gun guy, they were just tools to him and SFAIK he has never owned a SA revolver and its not something he would have added.

Then there was the Browning shotgun that Grandpa told of falling over around a campfire and emptying the magazine as it flailed around due to recoil. Nobody could figure out why none of the them were hit.
Both storys are amusing anecdotes. Nobody got shot. Had the derringer killed my friend or his FIL or a passing waitress or me, its not funny anymore. The patched hole remained in the ceiling tile for 10 years or more till it was replaced during a remodel.
There are old school revolvers that can carry 6, the Manhatten percussion Colt copies with 12 lock bolt cuts would require considerable movement of the hammer to unlock the cylinder.
Its an old rule and a good one.
With old school revolvers you ignore it at your peril.

Dan
 
I'm surprised nobody has yet looked at the design.

Assuming that something (exactly what is left to other discussions) manages to cause the hammer to be pulled back from it's rest position;

6 loaded, hammer down on between-chamber safety notch/pin: The cylinder is not in battery, so the bolt head is raised and resting against the surface of the cylinder, between stop notches. The cylinder is prevented from rotating only by the head of the hammer being captured by the safety notch or the hammer capturing the safety pin. It is free to rotate when the hammer is pulled back enough to clear the notch or pin; the exact amount varies with detailed gun design but it occurs well before the hammer reaches the half cock notch in every case. Cylinder rotation is not caused by the hand, however; it must come from an external force. The cylinder needs to rotate only 30 degrees before coming into battery, at which point the bolt head will enter a stop notch and stop the rotation. If the hammer were to be released at that point it would fall onto a capped, loaded chamber.

5 loaded, hammer down on empty chamber: The cylinder is in battery and the bolt head is raised into a cylinder stop notch. The cylinder is prevented from rotating by both the hammer and the bolt head. The cylinder is free to rotate when the hammer is pulled back enough to clear the nipple recess in the cylinder, AND the bolt head is removed from the stop notch. Again, this occurs before the half cock notch, and again the exact amount varies with gun detail design, but it is close to the half cock position, much further back than the above case. The cylinder in this case must rotate twice as far, or 60 degrees, before coming into battery and being captured by the bolt head dropping into the next stop notch. The hammer can drop onto a capped, loaded chamber at this point.

It seems from an examination of the design that the hammer down on an empty chamber is somewhat safer than the hammer down on a between-chamber feature with all chambers loaded, as the action responsible for moving the parts must act longer and over a larger distance. How much safer is impossible to say without specifying the manner in which the hammer and cylinder are moved, but since the possible outcome is catastrophic, it doesn't really matter how much.
 
It would seem to me at least in the case of the Remmi that having the hammer in the notch prior to the empty chamber would create the largest margin for error here. The point of leaving one empty is to create the safest margin possible with late 1800s guns. If you are out in the woods with no one to kill but yourself, then by all means load all six, then run around with scissors. No one will think less of you. All tho if you kill your neighborer because you were twirling you fully loaded six shooter like a rodeo cowboy and dropped it, you will be branded an dumb _______ (fill in your own word).
 
The "safety pins" are as close to useless as they can get.
I used C&B revolvers, usually a full flute 1860 Army, as carry guns for a couple of years. I carried them daily and shot the loads out about 3 times a week minimum. Very reliable, point well and the good quality guns I had were very accurate, the 60 Army especially.
ANY of the Colts will jump the pins with very little provocation. The fluted army won't rotate since the flute allows the lock bolt to protrude into the flute and while you get scars in the flute from the lock bolt when the hammer jumps the pins but it will not rotate far enough to set on a cap. IN MY EXPERIENCE. Loading 5 is the best practice in ANY old school SA revolver.
The 12 locking notch Manhattan's would stay since the hammer needs to be drawn back some distance to lift the lock bolt from the notch.
It takes almost nothing to move a hammer off a notch.
This is especially true if the gun is just stuck in a belt or sash ala Hickock in one of the photos. AS WAS OFTEN DONE IN THE OLD WEST.
If the hammer gets brushed and moves, the gun will invariably e found with the hammer on a cap. I HAVE BTDT and it instantly cured me of carrying 6 loaded in a Colt Navy or 1862.
But I seem to be repeating myself seems like I posted something like this above.

Dan
 
Dan,

I bought my son the Uberti 1860 Army Charcoal Blue Finish with the fluted cylinder from Taylor's. Is there more than one type of fluted cylinder 1860, as far as the mechanics go (excluding the charcoal finish here)or is any "fluted" cylinder "fully fluted"?

We don't carry C&B revolvers loaded, and IF I had to, it would be hammer-down on an empty.

Dave
 
My understanding of the fluted cylinder is it was discontinued, because the cylinders were failing from the metal being removed.

Reproductions are fine, because of better metal.
 
Thanks Pete. That little charcoal revolver is a real tack driver! Three of us have the same model and we use them for Qualification Matches. VERY accurate out to 50 yards & beyond!

Dave
 
smokin .50 said:
Dan,

I bought my son the Uberti 1860 Army Charcoal Blue Finish with the fluted cylinder from Taylor's. Is there more than one type of fluted cylinder 1860, as far as the mechanics go (excluding the charcoal finish here)or is any "fluted" cylinder "fully fluted"?

We don't carry C&B revolvers loaded, and IF I had to, it would be hammer-down on an empty.

Dave

On the originals and the one I had from Western Arms (Uberti) the flutes were full length. Not 1/2 length as found in the 1862 Police. http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/BlkPowder/CA041-60ArmyFlute.htm
Dan
 
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Capper said:
My understanding of the fluted cylinder is it was discontinued, because the cylinders were failing from the metal being removed.

Reproductions are fine, because of better metal.

This could be or it could have been to save machine work.
The thin spot on a Colt cylinder is the lock bolt cut. Most 45 SAA bulge ever so slightly at the lock bolt cut when proved at the factory. Careful examination will show it with the light being right. The the 1860 is thicker. The SAAs are really thin.
Dan
 
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