Lead

[Ray-Vigo]

Earlier this spring I bought some small lead bars from a vendor at an NSSA meet. Foolishly I forgot to ask whether the led bars were suitable for a rifled barrel. The vendor did tell me the lead was "very soft".

Is there some way of telling, at least using the usual "at home" tools just how soft a lead bar is, and whether it is suitable only for a musket, or for a rifle?

I plan on starting to cast this summer, after many months of putting it off. I'm going bankrupt on commercial rifle and musket balls for my flintlocks. I'd like to cast some of both, as needed. If I have to, I can just cast for the musket, but would rather kill all the birds with one bar.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

There are several tests that can be used at home to determine how soft your lead is.

The old tried and trued method of scratching the surface with your thumb nail.

I like the drop test, drop your lead onto a concrete floor from waist height or so, if it thuds its soft, if it rings it has antimony in it and is considerably harder.

The third test I like is the smash test, take a lead bar from your new purchase and a piece of lead that is of known hardness, whack them together edge on edge and compare the displacement of the new lead to the old lead, this will tell you if your new lead is softer or harder than your existing supply.

 

[hanshi]

Yes, the thumbnail scratch test works just fine as do the other two. Even if it's harder lead alloy it will still work fine; it will just cast a couple thousandths larger than dead soft lead.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I like the thumbnail test. It allows you to justify a lot more lead if you are desperate and really grind down hard. ;-)

 

[ohio ramrod]

If you have any balls on hand that you like place one against one you cast from the unknown sample in a vice and SLOWLY squease the vice . Then remove and see which ball deformed the most, it will be the softest. If they are the same your sample is basicly the same. Basicly small difference in purity will not be noticable to most people. Pure lead balls will be the heaviest when weighed.But generaly if it looks and feels like lead it won't harm your gun. :idunno:

 

[Idaho Ron]

Ohio this is not aimed at you. Just going in line.

I can scratch lead with my thumb that is 18 BHN. I don't call that soft be anyone's imagination. The only method I would call somewhat reliable is the drop test. If it rings it is hard. If it thuds it is soft. ALMOST! There are various degrees of hard. 5 BHN is dead soft. 7 BHN is what I like to use in my rifle it will thud. 9 BHN will have a very very slight ring and this is too hard for my 50 but I use it in my 45. 12 BHN will ring clear. Anything harder than that will be higher pitched.
The Thumb nail scratch test is worthless. Ron

 

[Idaho Ron]

Ohio, I will agree to a point :stir: . The softest lead most of the time will yield the heaviest bullet. Except. When using virgin lead that type of lead sometimes is tough to get proper fill out of moulds unless done correctly. A person can actually add a pinch of tin to pure lead and get a heavier bullet. The reason being, the tin helps the mould to fill out better. I have seen this with bullets. I have never poured a ball. Ron

 

[Bob E]

I agree with Ron. The thumbnail test doesnt work for me. What we have been doing (we, on our nssa team) is to do a drop test. Drop your lead ingot, the bigger the better, on a concrete surface and listen to the sound it makes on impact. A dull thud or thunk indicates soft lead while a metallic clank of any kind signifies hard lead. It may not be the best method but it seems to work well for us. Cheers, Bob E

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

You'll notice I listed 3 tests and like (use) 2 out of the three.

:wink:

 

[Idaho Ron]

I went to a fishing store about a year ago that had some ingots for making lead weights. Most of them rang but 10 didn't. I hid them under the others and went to get the only way to tell how hard lead is.

A real hardness tester. This one is the Cabine tree tester. I can put almost any size ingot into this thing and get a hardness. To finish the story I went back and asked to test them. I told them I would test the lead and write the hardness of the lead to help them sell them. I found that the 10 I set aside were between 5 and 7 BHN. Perfect for what I wanted. They were for sale for 1 dollar a pound I got 10 dollars off for testing and marking the other lead. Ron

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Nice tester,

When I was heavy into handloading for the various black powder cartridge calibers, using black powder, I almost bought one, with the BPC you want the lead a tad hard over dead soft to reduce/eliminate leading.

But alas I wised up and found muzzleloading. :wink:

Being a plumber, pure lead is relitively easy to come by and there is no need to mix tin or antimony in perfect amounts to try and eliminate leading, so the hardness tester ended up not in my collection of goodies.

 

[Idaho Ron]

But for the guy that wants to buy lead of unknown origin I can't stress how much these will save a guy in money. Before I got this tester I bought lead twice that was too hard. I use it for my 45 auto so I didn't get totally ripped off.
This tester is about 100 dollars. And since you shot BPCR you can understand that adjusting the hardness can make a huge difference in groups. I also feel that adjusting the hardness improves bullet performance on game. Ron

 

[Grullaguy]

The Cabine tester is probably the best on the market. Being cheap, I have previously cast a number of .50 REAL bullets of known pure lead. When I encounter an unknown lead sample, I will cast a few REALs using the unknown lead.

I then crush the pure and unknown REALS together in a vise with a small ball bearing in the middle. I hold everything together inside a Styrofoam sleeve that fits. (I had to cut that out as well).

Here is the process, better explained on the Corbin Swaging Website:

2. When the lead is cold, put the ball bearing between the two lead surfaces and squeeze this "sandwich" in the vise until the ball is driven partly into both surfaces (just enough to make a fair sized dent, but not past the middle of the ball).
3. Remove the sandwich and measure the two dent diameters. First measure the known pure lead dent and write down this number. Then measure the dent diameter in the unknown lead sample and write it down. Square both numbers (multiply times themselves). Then divide the resulting square of the unknown lead dent diameter into the square of the known pure lead dent diameter. This could be written as (L times L) divided by (X times X) where L is the pure Lead dent diameter, and X is the unknown lead dent diameter.
4. The answer should be a number of 1 or greater. If it is a fraction, or less than 1 in value, you have inverted the two dents and divided the wrong way. In that case, try again. When you get an answer that is 1 or greater, multiply it by 5. This is the actual Brinnell Hardness Number of the unknown sample.

Here is the formula:

H = 5 * (D1^2)/(D2^2)

Because my eyes are not as good as they used to be, I take 5 measurements and then average the results.

Using this method, I am able to consistently get accurate measurements

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Oh yes sir I agree , if an individual is buying lead of unknown purity then a tester is paramount.

I don't muck around with anything that requires a primer anymore so for me its a moot point.

And any lead I bring home is known to be soft to me, lead joints may be dirty but they are dead soft and that trash skims off without much effort.

At one point (about '98) I had melted down enough lead to fill 2 five gallon buckets with ingots formed from muffin tins, one bucket is pure, the other is not. Every time I cut out a leaking lead joint it comes home and into my pile of scrap lead till I gather up enough to justify a melt down session.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have found the pipe to be soft under 8BHN. but the joints have solder in them. I made the mistake the first time I melted pipe to add the joints. I ended up with ingots that are 9 BHN. I use them for my Hot Rod Renegade 45. Ron

 

[Ray-Vigo]

I did a drop test and a scratch test with some of the guys at the range. The consensus was it was pretty soft. It did scratch quite easily and didn't ping when dropped. I've got about 15 pounds of it now, so hopefully I'll be set a little while. I've got to start gathering the equipment up now to cast it.