Greenjoytj
54 Cal.
Maybe a new stock could be ordered from a Lyman from one of their GPR kit rifles, restocking could solve the vent hole location problem and would avoid tricky metal work required to move the vent.
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L&R lock in GPR
- Thread starter dodger
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I own a LH 54 cal lyman GPR.
I don't think mine is offset like that.
what I do know is my gun is a ton more reliable after doing 2 things.
One thing is drill out the touch hole to 1/16". The other is to wipe clean the pan and the "ceiling" section the frizzen makes in relation to the pan.
Bigger holes carry bigger flames.
Shiney stuff reflect light. Black things absorb heat better. Combustion makes water as byproduct. The black residue absorbs heat and a good bit of it.
When the gun is dirty, it likes more powder. I also pick it well dig in there a bit.
A lot of GPR owners tend to like to put the flint upside down to what most people see. the angled face of the flint is the downward side. A 1/8" flint gap when the gun is half cocked works well for my gun.
What flints are you using. My gun like the brown flints and not the RMC black ones. I got the flints from track the wolf and dixons in PA, they may be the same source.
Although it lacks general flintlock logic. I pour a little 4f right in the flash hole and push the pic in and out 3 or 4 times, fill the pan abut 2/3rds to 3/4 full.
I wish they would make a non-patent chamber gun. The patent chamber is about the last inch inside the gun and 40 cal in diameter. I put a 40 cal brush in there and clean it good every 4 shots or so. Put a patch on the brush to clean it.
Once I learned about the smaller chamber on the end, the gun was more reliable because I knew I needed to clean that spot.
I don't think mine is offset like that.
what I do know is my gun is a ton more reliable after doing 2 things.
One thing is drill out the touch hole to 1/16". The other is to wipe clean the pan and the "ceiling" section the frizzen makes in relation to the pan.
Bigger holes carry bigger flames.
Shiney stuff reflect light. Black things absorb heat better. Combustion makes water as byproduct. The black residue absorbs heat and a good bit of it.
When the gun is dirty, it likes more powder. I also pick it well dig in there a bit.
A lot of GPR owners tend to like to put the flint upside down to what most people see. the angled face of the flint is the downward side. A 1/8" flint gap when the gun is half cocked works well for my gun.
What flints are you using. My gun like the brown flints and not the RMC black ones. I got the flints from track the wolf and dixons in PA, they may be the same source.
Although it lacks general flintlock logic. I pour a little 4f right in the flash hole and push the pic in and out 3 or 4 times, fill the pan abut 2/3rds to 3/4 full.
I wish they would make a non-patent chamber gun. The patent chamber is about the last inch inside the gun and 40 cal in diameter. I put a 40 cal brush in there and clean it good every 4 shots or so. Put a patch on the brush to clean it.
Once I learned about the smaller chamber on the end, the gun was more reliable because I knew I needed to clean that spot.
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
Apparently I have one of the few GPR's made that was done right. Maybe because it's a left-hanbded version. I've refinished the wood, and disassembled and tuned the lock, polished the pan well, drilled out the flash hole to .067", and coned the inside of the liner, and chamfered the outside a little. The flash hole is centered, and ignition is near-instantaneous. It fires better than several custom or originals I've fired over the past few decades.
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
I have a TC PA Hunter carbine that had the same issue with the vent being back of center. It fired fine but I just wanted to center it up so I did. Here is what I did with mine.
The vent was to the rear of the pan. I removed the screws holding the tang and slid it forward until the vent centered the pan. Then I filed the hole back (chain saw file) until the bolt to the trigger plate would line up again. I then glass bedded the tang with accu-glass gel. Make sure you fill the hook area with plumbers putty and make sure there is no slot under the tang area that would let the gel leak into the tang bolt area (there is on TC guns, plug with putty before putting the gel in).
Mine lines up perfect now and looks a bunch better to me being lined up right. I thought I would need to weld the tang and drill/chamfer the hole but once the bolt was screwed in I couldn't see it at all so I left it that way. There will be a slight gap in the wood at the tail of the tang but there is supposed to be a little there anyway so I left it that way as well.
My wedge key still lined up as well so I didn't have to file any wood there either. Once the tang bedding was hard I removed the tang and super glued it to the barrel (this breaks apart easy later but handle it with care when bedding it or it will come apart)and then glass bedded the whole barrel channel (tang and barrel in one piece0. Use the plumbers putty to block off the area before and after the wedge key area when bedding the full barrel and make sure to put your ramrod back in when the bedding is still wet.
The vent was to the rear of the pan. I removed the screws holding the tang and slid it forward until the vent centered the pan. Then I filed the hole back (chain saw file) until the bolt to the trigger plate would line up again. I then glass bedded the tang with accu-glass gel. Make sure you fill the hook area with plumbers putty and make sure there is no slot under the tang area that would let the gel leak into the tang bolt area (there is on TC guns, plug with putty before putting the gel in).
Mine lines up perfect now and looks a bunch better to me being lined up right. I thought I would need to weld the tang and drill/chamfer the hole but once the bolt was screwed in I couldn't see it at all so I left it that way. There will be a slight gap in the wood at the tail of the tang but there is supposed to be a little there anyway so I left it that way as well.
My wedge key still lined up as well so I didn't have to file any wood there either. Once the tang bedding was hard I removed the tang and super glued it to the barrel (this breaks apart easy later but handle it with care when bedding it or it will come apart)and then glass bedded the whole barrel channel (tang and barrel in one piece0. Use the plumbers putty to block off the area before and after the wedge key area when bedding the full barrel and make sure to put your ramrod back in when the bedding is still wet.
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I agree with some of the others. I don't think it being back a bit matters much. As long as the hole is clearly accessible from the pan and you have no problems putting a pick in there to keep it clean, your ok to go.
As said before, my gun is extremely reliable when the gun is clean, but after a few shots you need to be mindful and drilling out the hole bigger will solve more reliability issues than the exact location of the small hole. Some guys even go bigger than 1/16" by one numerical drill size. 1/16" is more or less one maybe 2 numerical drill sizes larger than original. Very little metal removal.
I also slightly chamfered the outside face as well. Took a 5/16" drill with a standard cut face angle and made a tiny little funnel face in fornt of the hole. A slight countersink you can also call it. Not too deep or too big where you have problems grabbing a screwdriver to remove the vent hole liner.
Probably the most fruitful 30 seconds you'll ever spend working on that gun.
Also, using a right thickness pick is important too. Don't use one too thin, a touch smaller than the actual hole size is ideal.
As said before, my gun is extremely reliable when the gun is clean, but after a few shots you need to be mindful and drilling out the hole bigger will solve more reliability issues than the exact location of the small hole. Some guys even go bigger than 1/16" by one numerical drill size. 1/16" is more or less one maybe 2 numerical drill sizes larger than original. Very little metal removal.
I also slightly chamfered the outside face as well. Took a 5/16" drill with a standard cut face angle and made a tiny little funnel face in fornt of the hole. A slight countersink you can also call it. Not too deep or too big where you have problems grabbing a screwdriver to remove the vent hole liner.
Probably the most fruitful 30 seconds you'll ever spend working on that gun.
Also, using a right thickness pick is important too. Don't use one too thin, a touch smaller than the actual hole size is ideal.
Some of the guys here are worse than four Newfies changing a light bulb.
The GPR lock is fine!
If ignition is a little slow, increase the touch hole to 5/64". That is old and common knowledge!
The touch hole must be above the bottom of the pan.
If it is not, bring the gun to a competent gunsmith. If it is a little low, just grind the pan at the bottom, that will raise the apparent position of the touch hole.
If it is a little too far back on the pan, grind the rear portion of the pan, that will bring the touch hole more center to the pan.
And "YES" pay particular attention to the " paten type breech". A little alcohol on a patch between shots will guarantee good ignition.
It is not necessary each and every shot, "BUT" consistency is always better for exact grouping.
Spend $20 and get Dutch Shoultz ( spelling?) shooting procedures.
And you will then be a much better shooter.
You don't need a new lock, you don't need to over engineer the gun.
Plain and simple!
Fred
The GPR lock is fine!
If ignition is a little slow, increase the touch hole to 5/64". That is old and common knowledge!
The touch hole must be above the bottom of the pan.
If it is not, bring the gun to a competent gunsmith. If it is a little low, just grind the pan at the bottom, that will raise the apparent position of the touch hole.
If it is a little too far back on the pan, grind the rear portion of the pan, that will bring the touch hole more center to the pan.
And "YES" pay particular attention to the " paten type breech". A little alcohol on a patch between shots will guarantee good ignition.
It is not necessary each and every shot, "BUT" consistency is always better for exact grouping.
Spend $20 and get Dutch Shoultz ( spelling?) shooting procedures.
And you will then be a much better shooter.
You don't need a new lock, you don't need to over engineer the gun.
Plain and simple!
Fred
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
The lock that came on my Deerstalker has worked fine for me but it probably has less than 50 rounds on it. I did put a new RMC vent liner in it which pins at .070/#51. It improved ignition a good bit IMO.
The original TC locks I had were not nearly as reliable as the ones I got back from TC just before they sold to S&W. The improved frizzen and hammer version never fails to fire so far.
I also have an L&R Late English lock that came with my RMC Accusporter flintlock (1/28 twist) and it's a very nice lock and I do like the design of the pan. It's just like the replacement locks for the Lyman/TC guns. I don't think it's any better than either of my current locks. The 2 original TC locks were horrible in my opinion but I have no complaints with the newer designed ones.
Keeping the patent breech area and flash channel clean is essential to good ignition. The Lyman has an even smaller diameter than the TC and needs a little more attention to it. Remember that the bigger vent diameter will give a slightly lower velocity as well. The RMC liner is a good bit bigger than 1/16"/.0625. I'm sure no deer will ever know the difference.
The TC locks I originally had were so bad I never really enjoyed flint season until I got ignition every single time I dropped the hammer. I haven't had a failure to fire in many years now; not one. I remember clicking on one bedded deer three times before it fired with the old style TC lock. Some say the new ones are no better but I beg to differ.
This sport is suited to tinkering and adjusting things to get it the way you want it. I say if you want to try a new lock then go for it, but if it's lighting the pan every time then start looking somewhere else for the problem.
The original TC locks I had were not nearly as reliable as the ones I got back from TC just before they sold to S&W. The improved frizzen and hammer version never fails to fire so far.
I also have an L&R Late English lock that came with my RMC Accusporter flintlock (1/28 twist) and it's a very nice lock and I do like the design of the pan. It's just like the replacement locks for the Lyman/TC guns. I don't think it's any better than either of my current locks. The 2 original TC locks were horrible in my opinion but I have no complaints with the newer designed ones.
Keeping the patent breech area and flash channel clean is essential to good ignition. The Lyman has an even smaller diameter than the TC and needs a little more attention to it. Remember that the bigger vent diameter will give a slightly lower velocity as well. The RMC liner is a good bit bigger than 1/16"/.0625. I'm sure no deer will ever know the difference.
The TC locks I originally had were so bad I never really enjoyed flint season until I got ignition every single time I dropped the hammer. I haven't had a failure to fire in many years now; not one. I remember clicking on one bedded deer three times before it fired with the old style TC lock. Some say the new ones are no better but I beg to differ.
This sport is suited to tinkering and adjusting things to get it the way you want it. I say if you want to try a new lock then go for it, but if it's lighting the pan every time then start looking somewhere else for the problem.
No no it takes four Ontarians to change a light bulb.
One to actually do it and three to "relate to the experience".
Doesn't apply to me ,I use tallow candles.lol.
Drilling out the vent hole was one of the first things I did to improve ignition.
The lock on my GPR was badly made and unreliable and was replaced,after much deliberation, by something better.
Yours is (by your own words)fine .
You were lucky.
I wasn't.
That's life.
But it is good to share our experiences .
One to actually do it and three to "relate to the experience".
Doesn't apply to me ,I use tallow candles.lol.
Drilling out the vent hole was one of the first things I did to improve ignition.
The lock on my GPR was badly made and unreliable and was replaced,after much deliberation, by something better.
Yours is (by your own words)fine .
You were lucky.
I wasn't.
That's life.
But it is good to share our experiences .
Possibly this would be the answer .
However ,I am suspicious of Lyman's quality control.
If I were to restock the rifle ,I would start with a fresh blank and change the stock geometry a little to suit my physique.Maybe sometime in the future.
I think I'm done with spending money on this rifle .
However ,I am suspicious of Lyman's quality control.
If I were to restock the rifle ,I would start with a fresh blank and change the stock geometry a little to suit my physique.Maybe sometime in the future.
I think I'm done with spending money on this rifle .
galamb
58 Cal.
I see the Lyman, T/C et al as buy it and shoot it.
If you start messing with new locks, new triggers, replace the stock, shave a little here and there you end up spending as much as you would on a kit from Track or Pecatonica and you have 700 or 800 bucks of "extra parts" into a 300 dollar rifle.
They are what they are - a mostly reliable "off the shelf" rifle.
Yes, if the lock wears out DO replace it with an L&R (which costs about the same as OEM), but if it doesn't work from the get go you exercise the warranty.
Just my take on it..
If you start messing with new locks, new triggers, replace the stock, shave a little here and there you end up spending as much as you would on a kit from Track or Pecatonica and you have 700 or 800 bucks of "extra parts" into a 300 dollar rifle.
They are what they are - a mostly reliable "off the shelf" rifle.
Yes, if the lock wears out DO replace it with an L&R (which costs about the same as OEM), but if it doesn't work from the get go you exercise the warranty.
Just my take on it..
eaglesnester
40 Cal.
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Got a Lyman 54 Hawken GPR rock lock. Had a white lightning vent hole liner installed a L&R Lock with a deer slayer trigger. When I dump a powder charge down the spout, (2F) I can see the grains at the opening of the vent liner. The white lightning vent hole liner is coned on the inside chamber side. The powder sits literally on the pan. Ignition is super fast. It goes bang every time. In order for it not to fire I have to be very negligent in both fixing the flint and letting it get very dull. The trigger is very nice and breaks like glass. The rifle shoots as accurately as custom rifles costing thousands of dollars more. It shoots way better than I can. I built this flinter from a kit and have many complements on the range. Nothen fancy just a poor boy rifle but she sure is a good shooter and I am right proud of her.
AZbpBurner
54 Cal.
Old Ford said:
My .50 performs as well as most original or custom builds I've fired over the past several decades, plus it's lefthanded. I did spend several hours fitting and polishing lock parts, coned the interior of the flash hole, and drilled it out to .067". The set trigger gets it's poor rep from coming from the factory simply slapped together without any genuine effort to properly adjust it. It takes a little patience to get it right.
I could install a new lock, flash hole and trigger, but I won't get any better performance than I currently do with the components I fitted and adjusted myself.
Billnpatti said:
Ah, thanks for the insight.
I was working on a swap for a pair of CVA's and I decided the flint could easily handle a transition from flint to percussion, but the reverse might better be handled by cutting the plug end off, and replacing it with a new tang and plug. One of the longer Hawken flint plugs that will hold a drum. Not worth it on my pair.
Tom Compton
54 Cal.
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I have a 7/8" barrel with a 3/8-24 touch hole liner. Suspect this was done to shift the location of the touch hole fore and aft similar to your situation. The liners aren't real common but can be had. A good machine shop should be able to offset bore and tap for a 3/8" liner in the desired location on a larger barrel.
TC
TC
Bear-In-Katy
Pilgrim
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Hello.
I'm no expert to give advice, but can only relate what I did to my GPR, 50cal with 15/16"bbl. I converted from cap to flint and installed the LR lock. I sent the barrel to TOTW for them to remove the old breech plug and fit a new plug. With barrel in place, I marked where the vent hole should be, and drilled the hole. I too coned the hole outside. I would not recommend drilling the vent as large as I did. I admit it is a little large at 9/64". I have to be careful using 3f powder, as some powder will exit the vent, but not with 2f powder. One day , I will install a vent liner. I do not hunt anymore or get to go shooting, because of many health issues.
Be blessed with a long life and happy trails,
Bear-In-Katy
I'm no expert to give advice, but can only relate what I did to my GPR, 50cal with 15/16"bbl. I converted from cap to flint and installed the LR lock. I sent the barrel to TOTW for them to remove the old breech plug and fit a new plug. With barrel in place, I marked where the vent hole should be, and drilled the hole. I too coned the hole outside. I would not recommend drilling the vent as large as I did. I admit it is a little large at 9/64". I have to be careful using 3f powder, as some powder will exit the vent, but not with 2f powder. One day , I will install a vent liner. I do not hunt anymore or get to go shooting, because of many health issues.
Be blessed with a long life and happy trails,
Bear-In-Katy
Hi Doug , I think you are right on with your solution . I didn't know TOTW supplied Lyman breechplugs but you can bet I will be getting a "blank" breech plug from TOTW with my next order and like you I'll drill it out in the correct spot and then when she has worn enough , I'll drill and tap for a liner .
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
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