Morning all- a year or two back was fooling around paper patching some 32cal 98gr bnwc pistol bullets to use in my 32 crocket percussion.Had so-so results.When I say paper patching was really using paper masking tape.Have tons of these bullets that I use for my S&W 32cal target revolver and thought they could be adapted for a heavier projectile, with a bit more wallop, in my 32 cal muzzleloader. Anyway have just come across this process of bullet 'knurling' which increases the diameter of the bullet.Was thinking of knurling the 32 bnwc pistol bullet to get a good snug fit in the bore (instead of paper patching). 15-20grs fff, bit of COW thenlubed and knurled 98grbnwc. Has anyone already tried this? what do you think are the chances of success accuracy wise--cheers zodd
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Knurling bullets
- Thread starter zodd
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The knurled bullets should work ok, if you can get consistancy in diameter.
Old Ford
Old Ford
Flash Pan Dan
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Just an FYI, but the paper patch on a bullet is suppose to come off at the muzzle. Using tape would prevent that from happening. Might be why you got so-so results. Also if the bullets are not close to pure lead they might be to hard to upset in the bore at firing.
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Yes, the paper acts like a very thin sabot when everything is perfect. If the paper or a piece of paper stays with the bullet, accuracy suffers.
Seems like if the knurling was done for the full length of the bullet it could create some serious gas leaking as the gas blows thru the knurling.
If it was only done for a short length, that area might fit the bore well but you still would have the undersize bullet in the non knurled areas.
If your wife has an old dress pattern that you can 'borrow', you might want to try using the pattern paper for your paper patched bullets.
If she isn't into sewing, "out of date" dress patterns can be bought really cheap at a fabric store.
Paper patched bullets take at least two full layers of wrapping but the dress pattern paper is only about .001" thick so each layer only adds .002 to the size of the slug. It would take several layers to begin to approach the thickness of a single layer of masking tape.
You will want the finished bullet to be .002-/003 smaller than the guns bore.
If you want to try using dress pattern paper, cut it to a width that will match your bullet plus 1/4". Cut it to a length that will give you the number of layers you want to end up with.
Lightly dampen the paper strip with water and place the bullet so the extra 1/4" is hanging over the rear of the slug.
Place the paper on a flat surface.
Roll the bullet on the paper for the full length of it.
Twist the 1/4" "tail" several times and push it down against the rear of the slug.
Sit it aside to dry. When it does, the paper will shrink and become so tight it will not unwrap.
Do not lube these until just before you load them.
If you do lube them too soon, the paper will fall apart when you ram it down the bore.
If it was only done for a short length, that area might fit the bore well but you still would have the undersize bullet in the non knurled areas.
If your wife has an old dress pattern that you can 'borrow', you might want to try using the pattern paper for your paper patched bullets.
If she isn't into sewing, "out of date" dress patterns can be bought really cheap at a fabric store.
Paper patched bullets take at least two full layers of wrapping but the dress pattern paper is only about .001" thick so each layer only adds .002 to the size of the slug. It would take several layers to begin to approach the thickness of a single layer of masking tape.
You will want the finished bullet to be .002-/003 smaller than the guns bore.
If you want to try using dress pattern paper, cut it to a width that will match your bullet plus 1/4". Cut it to a length that will give you the number of layers you want to end up with.
Lightly dampen the paper strip with water and place the bullet so the extra 1/4" is hanging over the rear of the slug.
Place the paper on a flat surface.
Roll the bullet on the paper for the full length of it.
Twist the 1/4" "tail" several times and push it down against the rear of the slug.
Sit it aside to dry. When it does, the paper will shrink and become so tight it will not unwrap.
Do not lube these until just before you load them.
If you do lube them too soon, the paper will fall apart when you ram it down the bore.
great information gents 
Zonie I was thinking that gas might blow through the knurling thats why I thought maybe a dash of cream of wheat on top of the charge may help prevent that,what do you think? will definately give the proper paper patching a try--cheers zodd
Zonie I was thinking that gas might blow through the knurling thats why I thought maybe a dash of cream of wheat on top of the charge may help prevent that,what do you think? will definately give the proper paper patching a try--cheers zodd
longcruise
70 Cal.
The gas leakage (if it takes place) will be caused by the failure of the bullet to upset fully into the bore and grooves. A buffer will not do anything to upset the bullet so even if it does help seal gas it probably will not help with accuracy.
The knurling is not actually increasing the diameter of the bullet. It's just raising hairs of lead on the bullet that give the illusion of a tighter fit. I think the knurling would be the solution if the bullets were cast of pure lead and soft enough to immediately bump up to fit the bore and grooves.
If your goal is to use up this supply of bullets, it might be simpler to just sell them to someone who wants them. If you still want to shoot bullets from the rifle, you could get a proper mold and cast with pure lead. If you go a bit undersize, you can use Zonie's excellent advice on paper patching as well.
Also, keep in mind that the twist rate of the Crocket and the length of the bullet will need to be compatible to achieve bullet stability.
ohio ramrod
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I have found that an over powder wad does wonders for gas leaking when using mini's, and reduces patch burning on prb with heavy charges, and reduces powder fouling with heavily lubed patches. :idunno:
It's always fun to experiment but I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.
First, I doubt the rifling twist of the Crockett will stabilize a pistol bullet which is twice as long as the round ball for which the rifle was designed.
Second, If you expect an undersized bullet to slug up to fit the bore the bullet must not only be rather soft but must also be long and heavy for the bore size and must be propelled by a sufficient powder charge. The base of the bullet slugs up because the powder gas is pushing it forward while it's own inertia tries to hold it stationary. For that to happen you must have both sufficient gas pressure and sufficient inertia.
The blackpowder target rifles often used a bore size bullet which was a slip fit on top of the lands and was bumped up to full groove diameter when fired. A typical .32 caliber rifle bullet would weigh 170-220 grains and be propelled by 40 grains of powder. A 98 grain bullet and 15-20 grains of powder just won't do it.
First, I doubt the rifling twist of the Crockett will stabilize a pistol bullet which is twice as long as the round ball for which the rifle was designed.
Second, If you expect an undersized bullet to slug up to fit the bore the bullet must not only be rather soft but must also be long and heavy for the bore size and must be propelled by a sufficient powder charge. The base of the bullet slugs up because the powder gas is pushing it forward while it's own inertia tries to hold it stationary. For that to happen you must have both sufficient gas pressure and sufficient inertia.
The blackpowder target rifles often used a bore size bullet which was a slip fit on top of the lands and was bumped up to full groove diameter when fired. A typical .32 caliber rifle bullet would weigh 170-220 grains and be propelled by 40 grains of powder. A 98 grain bullet and 15-20 grains of powder just won't do it.
Thats interesting info Coyote Joe. Have some soft cast98gr hollow based bullets which are longer than the BNWC's, might knurl them up the front half of their length to hold lube ( and stay tight in the barrel till fired)Hopefully the hollow base will bump up more easily than the flat base of the BNWC. Off hand I think the crockett has a 1:48 twist. Do you think that it is the weight of the projectile or the length that will probably mean failure to stabilize (or a combination of both)? I imagine the hollow base should bump up ok (maybe :hmm: )to fill grooves so I'm guessing the weight or length could be a problem. I notice the buffalo ballets for the 32 are 70grs (no body here seems to stock them). Might also try slicing the 98gr BNWC's down to 70 grs on a guillotine to see what happens (shorter and lighter might help? This is all just playing around to see what happens and see what I can learn through the process(have already learnt a lot from the replies)It's all fun too :thumbsup: --cheers zodd
CH/4D makes a nice tool for this job. But I would expect knurling to actually decrease the diameter of the bullet, based on my use of cannelure tools.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Snort! :haha:
zodd said:
I guess a hollow based bullet would work much like a minie ball and those do seem to shoot well from slow twist barrels if you find just the right bullet and powder charge. However, it is pretty much agreed that to shoot accurately the minie must be no more than .001-.002" smaller than the bore. The .32 caliber pistol bullets run .311-.314" and I believe the Crockett bore is .320" or there abouts. With a bullet .006" under bore size the hollow base would probably still expand to fill the bore but the nose would still be undersized. There would be nothing to center the bullet nose in the bore and it would wobble badly. Maybe if you combine paper patching with the hollow base to make the bullet a snug fit before firing it just might work.
IIRC I think T/C once made a .32 caliber maxi ball mold but finding one today won't be easy.
