Knife experts to identify?

[David Sbur]

In a collection of rondy stuff from my dad I came across the following butcher knife. I'm gathering that it is 'post 1840's' but would appreciate any information on the time frames it could have been made and/or possibly traded. My guess is that it is not terribly old but it sure looks it.

Marked (not engraved or indent stamped) on blade...

Warranted Shear Steel
Nichols Bros.

9" blade
5 pin pattern on handle (2 forward, 2 back, one center)
Full tang with sides tapered to rear

Pics available (if I could figure out how to post).

Thanks in advance for any efforts!

Dave/Vancouver WA

 

[Le Grand]

Dave, You have a very good knife, treasure it. The Nichols Brothers were in business, in Greenfield, Mass., from 1880 to about 1920. While your knife isn't from the actual rendezvous era, it isn't too far from it. Carry or use it with pride. Le Grand

 

And here's how the blade steel was made:
Shear-steel: Blister-steel was sheared into shorter, manageable lengths, heated, and tilt hammered to homogenize the steel which improved the quality. Several bars are welded together and drawn out. The bar is sometimes cut, fagoted, reheated, and again tilted. This may be repeated. The terms single shear and double shear indicate the extent to which the process is carried.
This is in fact a type/form of random pattern
pattern welded Damascus first introduced into England circa 1690. It was widely used for blades of all types through the end of the 19th Century. Unlike modern times when Damascus is generally etched to accentuate the grain/pattern, shear steel blades were polished during the 18th/19th century, so one cannot necessarily tell just by looking, unless one does an etch or other test.

Blister-steel: Steel formed by roasting wrought iron bars in contact with carbon in a cementing furnace. It is so called from the blistered appearance of it's outer skin. To improve the quality, it was subjected to two subsequent processes, which converted it into shear-steel and cast-steel. Blister steel was NOT a one off method for individual blades, but rather a method of making large amounts of steel - this method was developed circa the 1500's. James Hanson mentions in his Fur Trade Cutlery Sketch Book, that the bars of wrought iron used for making blister steel were 2" x 4" x 20 feet.

 

[David Sbur]

To revive an old thread...

I am currently modifying a modern Russell Green River 6" blade from the 3 'rivet' pattern to pins ala' the MuzzleBlast articles from Sept/Oct 2006 on mountain men knives.

That article describes 'half tang' tapered grips or 'full tang' non tapered grips (tapering sides of the metal under the grips).

The above Nichols blade I have has a 'full tang' that 'tapers'. I prefer this design as it makes more sense strength-wise in the grip area. However, I don't know when this full tang taper design came to be or if it was correct during the fur trade era (let's go with pre-40 for now).

I also don't have a clue why the tangs were tapered in the first place other than perhaps it was a manufacturing neccessity.

Anyone knife historians out there who can shed some light?

 

[crockett]

DSbur:
I've done quite a bit of research on this subject. You'll hear that both full tang and half tang knives were made. In my opinion only half tang knives were made. Now, there'll be some complaints on that so... if anyone has a full tang, known pre-1840 butcher knife- please share- I want to know about it. In any event this half tang business creates a problem. Lot's of guys have full tang knives and don't want to NOT be PC. What's more, the current blade manufacturers only make full tang knives. So, to make everyone happy, there's supposed to be full tangs that are PC. Happy, happy, happy.
At the time the blades were forged and steel was an expensive material. It was no more work to forge a tapered tang than a flat tang. The rolled steel from which knives are cheaply produced came later.
If you want to be PC and are willing to go through all the work, follow the instructions in that article. That article mentions the scales are inletted for the tang, well that's the only practical way to do it for a hobbyist but if you look at the originals the scales were bent under pressure to conform to the tang, that is, the front of the handle is splayed out a little in thickness.
This is just a hunch but I think the three pins were common on European butcher knives and ok for a butcher shop but when the same knives were shipped to the American frontier the knives were put to harder use, hence the four pin "T" and then the five pin (or six pin) "H" pattern.

 

[John Ezra Jest]

Crockett,
You might want to check out this site.
French Belt knives

John Ezra

 

[Bon Sauvage]

John that is a good, informative site. Thanks for the post.

Ogre

 

[3crows]

thank you so much for the excellent info from the link. ive never seen a more perfect article on the subject.

 

[shmrck1]

John,
Thanks for that site! Very informative.
snake-eyes:applause: