Kerr Bullets in an 1858?

[rodwha]

That’s a great bullet. In my mold the driving bands are .458 and the base is .450”. They fit perfectly in my .456” chambers even when fouled and they aren’t too big for the .454 chambers of the old Army. The only niggle I have is that the base could be a bit longer than it is to allow the bullet to sit straight in the chambers prior to ramming it home. As it is, care must be taken to ensure it’s not entering the chambers off plumb. It really likes an over powder card for best accuracy.

I rarely had issues, but it was something I had to be mindful of. It’s a part of why I lengthened it, that and to sit deeper in the chamber so I won’t have to take too much more metal off of the loading port on my NMA again.

 

[nkbj]

Got some Triple Seven to try out in the .44 caliber 1858 sheriff's model (16" twist) with round noses and semi-wadcutters. Will have those lube grooves filled for sure. Curious to see if the 777 brings on some leading.
Waiting on a replacement spring to come in the mail and will be ready to do some tests.

 

[Bad Karma]

Idaholewis recommends Stijl synthetic lube (stuff you add to gasoline) as an additive for BP lubes. Says it stops leading. Even at velocities up to 1700 FPS and more in bullet shooting rifles. Part of the leading problem is no doubt due to the jump from a chamber to the barrel. I’m trying card wads to protect the base of the bullet.

 

[Wolfman0125]

One nice thing about the .44 English Kerr bullet is that it chambers well in the reproduction Colt, Uberti, and Pietta revolvers without having to modify or enlarge the loading port. It was imported by the Confederacy and widely used. It is a nice heavy bullet that provides good penetration. They require minimal lube in just the grooved areas on the heel portion only. They group very nicely with the proper hold as most BP revolvers tend to shoot high. Typically at about 25 yds or so a belt buckle aiming point will land a chest shot. So aiming at the bottom of your target will get you close to the black.

 

[YJake]

Eras Gone JUST got the Kerr bullet mold back in stock. I ordered one and plan to do some casting in June with a range report to follow. Maybe a J&D comparison.

-Jake

 

[Wolfman0125]

Yep, not many left though. I have mine arriving this week. They are 69.95 shipped. Not bad. Personally I think it is better than the Johnston and Dow if you don’t want to have to file your loading port and reblue it.

 

[YJake]

I cast about a hundred of the Kerr bullets and really like them more than the Johnston and Dow. They’re shorter and I can easily fit 30 grains of powder under one in my 1858 chambers.

Mine dropped at 226 grains.

With 30 grains it penetrated over 5 inches into an oak log.

Good weight retention too, went from 226 to 224 grains.

I’ll bring the chronograph next time and check velocities and accuracy on paper.

-Jake

 

[Wolfman0125]

I can’t wait to try them. Just got my mold a few days ago. Just waiting on my lead order.

 

[Stantheman86]

These were made to be used in a Combustible cartridge, and the lube grooves probably were in line with the lube grooves on a Minie ball. They probably thought a Beeswax / Tallow lube helped keep the gun running or ease repeated loadings. It was more likely just an effort to make these more effective for actual field use.

Conical bullets make more sense for paper cartridges and it was believed they were more effective. The Walker used a Pickett bullet. Whether they actually were more effective or not is debatable. Some writings I've seen say that Cavalrymen in the Mexican War thought round balls put men down better. "Bullets pass clean through but round balls put a man down for good"

 

[Wolfman0125]

The English Kerr was a gun that was imported by the Confederacy. I think that these bullets were made for it. I heard that the Kerr was used widely by the South, but I wonder if it was ever used by Union troops at all.

 

[YJake]

The London Armoury Company sold 1,600 Kerr revolvers to the Union in 1861. Maybe 6-7,000 were bought by the Confederacy (per order records) and many were smuggled through the blockade to arm soldiers. I’m not sure if every revolver ordered included a bullet mould, but if it did there would have been thousands of moulds circulating around the U.S. during the war.

As to whether the Colt designs, Johnston and Dow, Richmond lab, or Kerr would be most common on a battlefield? I have no idea.

-Jake

 

[hrt4me]

I cast about a hundred of the Kerr bullets and really like them more than the Johnston and Dow. They’re shorter, and I can easily fit 30 grains of powder under one in my 1858 chambers.

Mine dropped at 226 grains.
View attachment 80471

With 30 grains, it penetrated over 5 inches into an oak log.
View attachment 80472

Good weight retention too, went from 226 to 224 grains.
View attachment 80473

will you be able to remelt and recast that fired bullet?

 

[YJake]

will you be able to remelt and recast that fired bullet?

Sure, I don’t see why not? It’s in my scrap lead pile now.

-Jake

 

[Wolfman0125]

I cast about a hundred of the Kerr bullets and really like them more than the Johnston and Dow. They’re shorter and I can easily fit 30 grains of powder under one in my 1858 chambers.

Mine dropped at 226 grains.
View attachment 80471

With 30 grains it penetrated over 5 inches into an oak log.
View attachment 80472

Good weight retention too, went from 226 to 224 grains.
View attachment 80473

I’ll bring the chronograph next time and check velocities and accuracy on paper.

-Jake

What distance were you from the log to get that 6” of penetration? Thanks.

 

[YJake]

What distance were you from the log to get that 6” of penetration? Thanks.

Pretty close, 5 yards maybe.

-Jake

 

[Stantheman86]

The Johnston&Dow bullets are tack drivers out of my Dragoon and over a 40 grain charge I'd think it would stop anything you'd need it to.

 

[excess650]

I've only shot roundballs and Lyman 450229 hollow-based FN from my Uberti 1858. Both were loaded with Swiss fffg at 35+gr and shot similar sized groups at 25 yards, basically a ragged hole with either! I smeared lube over the chamber mouths and had no issue with the revolver binding due to fouling in 50 shots. If there is an advantage with the conical, its that it is a bit heavier, 175gr IIRC.

 

[Throwdown58]

Conical bullets were the norm in percussion revolvers back in the day. That is what were issued in pratically all ready made commercial and government cartridges at the time. Sam Colt also only used conicals at the Colt Cartridge Works. The Kerr bullet is a British design intended for the imported Kerr revolvers, however it is an effective bullet in any .44 caliber percussion revolver. The ready made cartriges were pre-lubed, even those made by Colt.

I just got my molds like others here and have to find time to test these bullets with the paper cartridge formers at cartridgekits.com for a review. Mark suggests in his video that you pan lube them by dipping them with pliers, which is what I am going to do. I have grown to dislike the J&D bullet because it catches on the rammer on Pietta 58s, and is very difficult to use with 51s. This bullet looks like it is going to be my goto.

 

[jimhallam]

Modern day use for NMLRA/NRA match use I`m not aware of any current Master or High Master shooter using Conicals in revolver matches. Yes, they are legal in both Traditional and Open Divisions. Only aware of one Champion using Conicals. Charlie Haffner .Jr...He told me the revolver was custom built w/ special Conical reamed cylinder and special twist barrel. He insisted it would be useless in the factory guns if match accuracy is needed.

I am NOT criticising that individual -- many others take the same approach in Competitions, but it is a good example of someone with a loong pocket throwing money at winning matches because the R&Rs "didn't actually BAN ... ... ".
We had (have?) the same in the UK for many shooting disciplines. The net result is driving away Joe Average: there is an obvious need for classifications such as "Standard Revolver / Rifle" (made in the spirit of the period without specialised gunsmithing techniques) alongside the "anything goes" class.