Kabyle Musket

[Barud]

After long years on the prowl for an authentic, functional and affordable eastern flintlock, I have finally found one worthy of my collection. My go-to guy said it was a steal and by Turkish standards I couldn't help but agree.

To my understanding, it's a tall Kabyle musket (nearly six feet) with an "agujeta" lock, or a toe-lock as sometimes called. It's seen better days certainly. Its lock is somewhat wobbly and loose, the stock has cracks, the ramrod is missing, its channel is broken and it's missing nearly all decoration. However the important bits, that being the barrel and the lock, are still in good shape, at least, compared to guns that I have seen. The lock is somewhat battered but fully functional and not corroded (a rarity for a Turkish gun, honestly). The barrel has a chip on the muzzle, but besides that, seems to be a solid smoothbore. The mainspring is incredibly heavy and the gun requires nearly two hands to cock, but all the working parts are operational, the safety included. The barrel and the stock have Latin alphabet markings on them, so I suspect that it was once in Western hands. I suspect it can be restored and so I hope to take it to a competent gunsmith as soon as possible. Your opinions and comments are as always appreciated.

I have uploaded pictures of the gun below. Hope it's worthy of attention.

 

[TobJohn]

Nice find! Does Turkey require proofing to shoot antique firearms?

 

[Barud]

Nice find! Does Turkey require proofing to shoot antique firearms?

Honestly, the lawmakers don't seem to have considered the idea. The law seems to contradict itself in various points regarding antique firearms and there's no concept of proofing to be found.

 

[cyten]

Congrats on your nice acquisition, Barud!

 

[TobJohn]

Honestly, the lawmakers don't seem to have considered the idea. The law seems to contradict itself in various points regarding antique firearms and there's no concept of proofing to be found.

Hopefully, that means less hoops to jump through. Either way, should be fun to get it fully functioning again!

 

[BillinOregon]

First one I have seen and glad you are happy with it. I hope you can stabilize/repair cracks and chips and get it shooting again. Certainly one of the "if it could only speak" firearms!

 

[rickystl]

Hi Barud

An Algerian Kabyle musket. Congratulations. Nice find. Some observations:

LOCK: Yes, as you mention, generally referred to as an agujeta lock. It's believed it's general pattern originated in Spain in the early years of miquelet design. The toe-lock designation refers to the mainspring acting on the toe of the hammer (Italian style) versus the heel of the hammer (Spanish style). Sometimes the locks have a maker's mark and date - usually on the bottom edge of the lock plate. Yes, the mainsprings are very strong, sometimes ridiculously strong. I've found they chew up flints very quickly. LOL Note that the lock plate sits just proud of the stock in the mortise. It's not quite flush. Every one of these that I've seen are built this way for whatever reason.

STOCK: I'll post a photo of my Algerian shooter here. I notice there is some forearm damage on yours. Note that the original stocks did not reach to the muzzle. The forearms were built to only about 2/3rds the length towards the muzzle, per my photo. And used wood ramrods. So it's something to note during restoration.

BARREL: My guess is that your barrel is tapered octagon with no flair at the muzzle. This is what I've seen on most. Occasionally, an octagon - to -round will show up. My guess is these barrels for most of these Algerian muskets were made at a lesser known barrel maker in France. But I've never been able to track this down. All the octagon barrels look exactly alike. And all were smooth bores.

The numbers on the barrel - and especially the "761" on BOTH the barrel and butt stock may be rack numbers, added later in the period for a captured gun. The Z5005 number, with what appears to be intentional scratch-out marks, may have been from yet an earlier capture (?) Interesting.

If you doe find a gunsmith and decide to restore it, let me know. I likely have some original wood, period bone inlays (that can be modified to your stock) and lock parts.

Rick

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

See? We were waiting for our own Middle Eastern arms expert Ricky to weigh in!

 

[Barud]

Hi Barud

An Algerian Kabyle musket. Congratulations. Nice find. Some observations:

LOCK: Yes, as you mention, generally referred to as an agujeta lock. It's believed it's general pattern originated in Spain in the early years of miquelet design. The toe-lock designation refers to the mainspring acting on the toe of the hammer (Italian style) versus the heel of the hammer (Spanish style). Sometimes the locks have a maker's mark and date - usually on the bottom edge of the lock plate. Yes, the mainsprings are very strong, sometimes ridiculously strong. I've found they chew up flints very quickly. LOL Note that the lock plate sits just proud of the stock in the mortise. It's not quite flush. Every one of these that I've seen are built this way for whatever reason.

STOCK: I'll post a photo of my Algerian shooter here. I notice there is some forearm damage on yours. Note that the original stocks did not reach to the muzzle. The forearms were built to only about 2/3rds the length towards the muzzle, per my photo. And used wood ramrods. So it's something to note during restoration.

BARREL: My guess is that your barrel is tapered octagon with no flair at the muzzle. This is what I've seen on most. Occasionally, an octagon - to -round will show up. My guess is these barrels for most of these Algerian muskets were made at a lesser known barrel maker in France. But I've never been able to track this down. All the octagon barrels look exactly alike. And all were smooth bores.

The numbers on the barrel - and especially the "761" on BOTH the barrel and butt stock may be rack numbers, added later in the period for a captured gun. The Z5005 number, with what appears to be intentional scratch-out marks, may have been from yet an earlier capture (?) Interesting.

If you doe find a gunsmith and decide to restore it, let me know. I likely have some original wood, period bone inlays (that can be modified to your stock) and lock parts.

RickView attachment 214303View attachment 214305View attachment 214318

Hello Ricky,

You are correct about your assessments concerning the barrel and the lock - I was worried that the lock not being flush might be an issue, but now that I have your input I'm less concerned now. Nonetheless, on closer inspection I found another crack on the stock, starting from the front end of the lock screw and swiveling around the stock right in front of the handguard. The gun seems to kick wooddust from out there when dry fired (either there, or the lockplate itself, which is covered in gunk). It might need a restocking to be made into a shooter. It also seems to have had a decorative plate right behind the barrel tang, and I've seen an example in a museum where it bore markings there, but that too is missing. Almost feels like someone deliberately took off all decoration. Save the bone inlay around the trigger guard it's all stripped.

The story behind the markings I expect is not far off from your assessment, and I appreciate your offer concerning the wood and the bone inlays but I always seem to have trouble with shipping, so I'll likely leave that to the gunsmith when I get to him, or the old man I know from the local flea market. He's done that for some... I think the term you use here is "unmentionable" antiques of mine.

See? We were waiting for our own Middle Eastern arms expert Ricky to weigh in!

It's no show without Punch!

 

[rickystl]

Hi Barud

LOCK: All of these locks I've seen used three lock screws. On your lock the rear screw is missing, the front screw looks like it is a later, 20th century replacement, and the middle screw appears authentic. With the exception of the Afghan Jazail, all of the other guns from elsewhere (Morocco, Algeria, Albania, Greece, Caucasus, etc.) all used round, dome-head screws for their lock screws - and anything else that required a screw. Whereas gun builders in the West preferred the pan-head screws for lock plates. Just found this curious. But making two additional lock screws would be an easy task for a builder.

INLAYS: Since "bone" inlays don't really have any real value, there is a good chance that the original inlays missing on your gun were cannibalized from your gun for retro-fitting on another gun that was missing inlays. And likely done in the 20th century or later. I've seen this done often. In fact, I'm some what guilty of doing it myself. LOL But if you can restore a gun using original materials, it usually turns out better.

There might be some unknown issue shipping a complete antique muzzle loading gun between the USA and Turkey. I don't know. But small parts and wood stock pieces should not be an issue. Last I heard there is still trade between the two Countries. LOL So, during restoration, check first to see if I have something. Would be far less expensive than building from scratch in most cases.

Rick

 

[Barud]

Hi Barud

LOCK: All of these locks I've seen used three lock screws. On your lock the rear screw is missing, the front screw looks like it is a later, 20th century replacement, and the middle screw appears authentic. With the exception of the Afghan Jazail, all of the other guns from elsewhere (Morocco, Algeria, Albania, Greece, Caucasus, etc.) all used round, dome-head screws for their lock screws - and anything else that required a screw. Whereas gun builders in the West preferred the pan-head screws for lock plates. Just found this curious. But making two additional lock screws would be an easy task for a builder.

INLAYS: Since "bone" inlays don't really have any real value, there is a good chance that the original inlays missing on your gun were cannibalized from your gun for retro-fitting on another gun that was missing inlays. And likely done in the 20th century or later. I've seen this done often. In fact, I'm some what guilty of doing it myself. LOL But if you can restore a gun using original materials, it usually turns out better.

There might be some unknown issue shipping a complete antique muzzle loading gun between the USA and Turkey. I don't know. But small parts and wood stock pieces should not be an issue. Last I heard there is still trade between the two Countries. LOL So, during restoration, check first to see if I have something. Would be far less expensive than building from scratch in most cases.

Rick

Hello Rick,

It's less the international shipping part that worries me, but more the ineptitude of our mailmen. I have lost so much to domestic cargo that it would require effort of me to list it all.

In other news, today I noticed that there may be a slight bend to the barrel. It might need a rebarreling. We'll see.

 

[rickystl]

Hello Rick,

It's less the international shipping part that worries me, but more the ineptitude of our mailmen. I have lost so much to domestic cargo that it would require effort of me to list it all.

In other news, today I noticed that there may be a slight bend to the barrel. It might need a rebarreling. We'll see.

OK. I understand the issue. Keep us posted on your investigation and progress.

Rick

 

[Rudyard]

I have such a musket ide call it a ' Mookahla' Algerian my one was just a cast away stock or most of one the lock came cheaply of a R voius Blanket the first Shawnee (Crabs ) the barrel ex Major Corry but by dint of effort its now serviceable if hardly suited to the the hunt Any example is worth saveing .
Regards Rudyard

 

[rickystl]

Hello Rick,

It's less the international shipping part that worries me, but more the ineptitude of our mailmen. I have lost so much to domestic cargo that it would require effort of me to list it all.

In other news, today I noticed that there may be a slight bend to the barrel. It might need a rebarreling. We'll see.

Hi Barud

I also have a spare, original, tapered octagon barrel for these guns. JFYI

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

There might be some unknown issue shipping a complete antique muzzle loading gun between the USA and Turkey. I don't know. But small parts and wood stock pieces should not be an issue. Last I heard there is still trade between the two Countries. LOL So, during restoration, check first to see if I have something. Would be far less expensive than building from scratch in most cases.

Rick

Turkey approved Sweden’s NATO bid and the F-16 transfer is back on, so trade should be normal, or whatever normal is for Erdogan’s realpolitik

 

[rickystl]

I have an interesting original spare stock for an Algerian musket. It's in very good condition and is heavily carved from front to back. I had to have the stock cut in two pieces (at a 45-degree angle) to allow it to be shipped to me from Greece. Would be easy to glue/pin together.

Rick

 

[Barud]

Hi Barud

I also have a spare, original, tapered octagon barrel for these guns. JFYI

Rick

I have an interesting original spare stock for an Algerian musket. It's in very good condition and is heavily carved from front to back. I had to have the stock cut in two pieces (at a 45-degree angle) to allow it to be shipped to me from Greece. Would be easy to glue/pin together.

Rick

Unfortunately customs here are massively anal about anything looking vaguely gun-shaped (the very, very broad definition of a firearm in Turkish law helps, no doubt), and incompetent to boot. I'm not sure if I'd try my chance with bringing anything from abroad besides actually taking it myself - can't trust them with not confiscating it, or just losing it.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Barud

It's a shame that hobbyists in different countries with similar interests can't even share each others resources. When was the last time a crime or insurrection happened using antique muzzle loading guns ? LOL

Rick

 

[Rudyard]

Hi Barud

It's a shame that hobbyists in different countries with similar interests can't even share each others resources. When was the last time a crime or insurrection happened using antique muzzle loading guns ? LOL

Rick

Now this does sound familiar ,! Real PITA factor. ive made up a few such pieces from floating parts over the years but only recently had static about such guns .The basic plan they seems to be if in doubt be negative. Don't look for logic or understanding assume we are all villians .
. Lord help us to push !.
Regards Rudyard

 

[TobJohn]

Hi Barud

It's a shame that hobbyists in different countries with similar interests can't even share each others resources. When was the last time a crime or insurrection happened using antique muzzle loading guns ? LOL

Rick

They've probably had the laws on the books for 500 years and never bothered to remove them, lol!