-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Is this a Hawken?
- Thread starter Kal-El
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Daryl Crawford
50 Cal.
No, that poster was probably just confused by the variety of pictures from others. That's percussion.
You have a solid performer there. Easy to care for and clean. Good and accurate to 50 yards for any shooter. Farther with good load development and skill. Shoot it says I. Join the fold of powder burners.
You have a solid performer there. Easy to care for and clean. Good and accurate to 50 yards for any shooter. Farther with good load development and skill. Shoot it says I. Join the fold of powder burners.
This is a Hawken rifle - barrel is stamped "S. Hawken St. Louis", most likely 1849 or later. (sold in 2015 RIA $4313.00)
There were more makers that copied the design from other regions of our country, like the Ohio region.
I build my T/C Hawken 45 Cal. kit in 1983 and have had it ever since. It is a very good gun.
I think it is very special that it was your Fathers gun, I would keep it and enjoy it and continue to pass it down.
Daryl C is correct, solid gun. Patched Round Ball friendly. .440 with .018 or .020 pillow ticking and 50 to 60 grains of FFFg and mine will group pretty good at 100 yards. (3 to 4 inches)
user 48679
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2020
- Messages
- 1,661
- Reaction score
- 2,156
You rifle is definitely a T/C, but unfortunately made before T/C started stamping the model name on the barrels.
T/C Hawken & T/C Seneca look identical to the un-initiated, but are easily distinguished from each other via measuring the barrel thickness, across-the-flats.
Both were made in .45cal, but the Hawken had a 15/16" thickbarrel, and the Seneca had a 13/16" thick barrel
The Seneca should not be shot with typical Hawken loads, since the entire rifle is downsized from the Hawken, with a thinner barrel, smaller lock, and thinner stock (especially in the grip area).
The Stock will readily split under heavy loads.
Here's the T/C Suggested Loads Manual for Seneca's
T/C Hawken & T/C Seneca look identical to the un-initiated, but are easily distinguished from each other via measuring the barrel thickness, across-the-flats.
Both were made in .45cal, but the Hawken had a 15/16" thickbarrel, and the Seneca had a 13/16" thick barrel
The Seneca should not be shot with typical Hawken loads, since the entire rifle is downsized from the Hawken, with a thinner barrel, smaller lock, and thinner stock (especially in the grip area).
The Stock will readily split under heavy loads.
Here's the T/C Suggested Loads Manual for Seneca's
Last edited:
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Let's back up a bit...A true Hawken would have been made by the Hawken brothers in St Louis in the 1800s....Today many manufactures want to tell you their rifles are Hawkens, and that the only rifle used in the fur trapping days in the Rocky Mountains were Hawkens...Not exactly true...So, is it a Hawken?? No...Is it basically a half stock rifle that many today would call a Hawken? Yes..
No correction needed Kansas, thats my Flintlock. I posted pic to show him a comparison of mine to his, which is the percussion cap which both are .45 calibers 
Just an add on here, the fact that there is no letter K in front of the serial number signifies it was a rifle assembled at the factory in comparison mine has a letter K before the serial number signifies a kit rifle.
Just an add on here, the fact that there is no letter K in front of the serial number signifies it was a rifle assembled at the factory in comparison mine has a letter K before the serial number signifies a kit rifle.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2019
- Messages
- 1,615
- Reaction score
- 2,484
The picture he had showed a percusion rifle?
SamTex1949
32 Cal.
Best advice, look for a club or group in your area . Take the rifle and any extras and ask questions, observe shooting and what goes on. Most likely someone else will have a TC or had a TC and be willing to help you out.
Daryl Crawford
50 Cal.
Ball and patch were mentioned, as was 3f powder. You would also need a nipple wrench, a .45 caliber cleaning jag, a .45 caliber breech scraper, and of course caps. While you may want more, I think you could get started with very little investment.
Actually the TC Seneca was a bit more distinct than the Hawken other than by size and barrel dimensions... the Hawken patch box, trigger guard, hammer, and lock were all different than the Seneca. There is no "toe" on the Seneca trigger guard, and the patch box is without points, as well as the lock having no cast "engraving". The OP's rifle is a TC Hawken...
Here's a Seneca
LD
William Lincoln
54 Cal.
The first photo is a cap lock.
I forget what it is called but the TC had a special scraper to go down the rabbit hole in the breech, I have never seen or used one. I always cleaned a TC barrel with breech end dunked in a bucket of warm water, there is nothing left to scrape after one of my cleaning sessions.
Here is the rabbit hole on a TC breech.
Here is the rabbit hole on a TC breech.
Kal-El
32 Cal
I shot a regular flashlight beam and an ultraviolet beam down the barrel and it looks pretty good, so pops must have taken good care of it.
Just as an FYI, Hawkens were originally made in Ohio and they were full-stock flintlocks, later changing to percussion cap in the 1830's. Most of the Plains-style rifles were made after Samuel moved his gun-making shop to St. Louis, MO in 1822 where his brother Jacob already had a gun-making shop. They made rifles separately until 1825 when they joined forces and began to manufacture the J and S Hawken Rifle.
The Hawken Brothers, certainly Sam Hawken built rifles in Ohio. Jake Hawken had established a gun smithing shop in St. Louis with a partner Lakenan. Their father and a brother or two built rifles back in Virginia. None of these rifles looked anything like the later rifles Jake and Sam built after they formed their partnership in St. Louis. All of the Hawken gunsmiths learned the trade in Virginia. Some worked at Harper's Ferry. One the Hawken Brothers became partners, the mountain rifle architecture was developed. The short history from then on is pretty much as @dgracia states.
smoothshooter
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Messages
- 3,478
- Reaction score
- 2,166
It is a sort-of copy of The Hawken-style plains rifle made by a company that was in business for 20 years or longer in Rochester, New Hampshire I think.
They were and are good quality rifles. I shot one a lot in .50 caliber in the seventies and eighties.
If the bore is pitted from neglect you can send the barrel to Barrel Wizard Bobby Hoyt in PA, and get that taken care of for a pretty modest charge.
Kal-El
32 Cal
From what I could see looking down the bore it looked pretty good. Pops must have taken good care of it. Gotta ask around some of the step-family in Mizzou and see if anyone knew he had it or if he shot it.
user 48679
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2020
- Messages
- 1,661
- Reaction score
- 2,156
FYI, more like 50-60 years.
T/C started business in the early 1960's in Rochester NH until S&W bought them out in Jan 2007 and moved production to S&W's Springfield, MA location in Dec 2010 - where only a few of the former T/C models are made (a couple of unmentionables & their "Hawken").
