India Torador Matchlock Wall Gun

[rickystl]

Merry Christmas to ALL.

A Christmas present to myself. LOL General Specs:

Description: Torador Matchlock Wall Gun. Probably from Central or Northern India. Maybe sometime from the earlier 19th Century. No markings on the gun, except rack/capture numbers stamped on the barrel and stock (common). Plain, robust, munitions grade build. Many of the standard type Torador musket stocks were made in two pieces, with a splice made about mid-forearm. But this stock looks to be one-piece (or maybe one tree in this case LOL). Apparently, these huge muskets were made to be fired from a rest on the wall of the fortress. Something in between a standard musket and light artillery. The barrel is 65" long and about .75 caliber. The overall length is about 86". The weight (on a bathroom scale) is 20-lbs. on the nose. I haven't inspected the bore yet (especially to make sure there is not still a load) but am confident it has the unusual (but typical) bore design that from the muzzle is standard cylinder bore, down to a smaller narrow section, then opens to a larger than bore size powder chamber at the breech. Here are a bunch of pics. The first will give you an idea of the size standing next to a 7' doorway. LOL

Rick

 

[rickystl]

MORE PICS...

 

[rickystl]

LAST ONES....

 

[hawkeye2]

Impressive! I'm surprised that it never had a hook or yoke to mount the gun and help absorb recoil. Do you have any idea what might have been attached to the butt with the 2 holes?

 

[rickystl]

Impressive! I'm surprised that it never had a hook or yoke to mount the gun and help absorb recoil. Do you have any idea what might have been attached to the butt with the 2 holes?

Hi Hawkeye.

It was likely just a simple butt cap. Usually made from horn. Now missing.

Rick

 

[russellshaffer]

At 20 pounds and only .75 caliber the recoil was probably tolerable. Does the trigger push straight up or does it slide? An amazing gun.

 

[rickystl]

BACK STORY:

I already have a Torador musket for shooting. So I never really wanted one of these huge wall guns. But fellow Forum member Flint62 sent me a heads-up of an auction that had two of these for sale. The auction was in Ottawa, IL which is about a 3 1/2 hour drive from where I live in St. Louis, MO. But all interstate. And the opening bid was only $50.00. I was the only bidder for this one. So with buyer's premium I got it for $63.50 plus a couple tanks of gas going back and forth to pick it up and return home the same day. LOL The auction could not ship this gun due to it's 86" OAL. So it had to be picked up.

MY PLANS FOR THIS GUN: For a number of years, I have off and on been searching for a Torador barrel that I could cut off the rear of the barrel about 12-14". Then, have the rear section of the barrel cut lengthwise, right down the middle. That way, I can study and take photos of the unusual breech design in these muskets. That this one is wall gun size will make for even better photos - I'm hoping. LOL
The barrel walls are really thick. But it's iron versus steel. So I can probably cut it in two with a hacksaw. Then send the piece of barrel to Flint62. He has a source to make the accurate lengthwise cut. Some type of bandsaw I'm guessing. Flint62 has agreed to be my accomplice in this exercise of destruction. LOL

I'll examine the bore latter today or tomorrow and report back.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

At 20 pounds and only .75 caliber the recoil was probably tolerable. Does the trigger push straight up or does it slide? An amazing gun.

Hi Russ

The trigger pushes up, like the others. The trigger/serpentine is still in working order.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

Oh lord, don’t cut it up!!! At least get a copy of the barrel made to go in the stock. You may want to deer hunt with it sometime…

 

[rickystl]

Oh lord, don’t cut it up!!! At least get a copy of the barrel made to go in the stock. You may want to deer hunt with it sometime…

Hi Sam

I know. Many would call it blasphemy to do this.

 

[Sam squanch]

Maybe someone could turn a new breech section to replace the old one you cut off and join it to the old barrel, you could at least display it that way. I believe I hear rumblings from Rudyard all the way from New Zealand!

 

[Rudyard]

You got that right ! To cut up & destroy such a gun to ammuse yourself is Hienous idiocy. We are supposed to be about preservation no mater how cheaply it came .The Marks are export marks its from the Fortress of Jiapore they useually came with a written letter from the Maharaja of Jiapore one came here and I checked it out & fired it cleaned it and it hangs on a gunshop wall with the jingle' We sell Matchlocks to Machine guns ' There is a U tube account of just such a barrel being sawn down in India .let that satisfy your curiosity .Are you a' student of arms or a vandal ?' ask your self that ..Rudyard

 

[Sam squanch]

Sorry Rick, Rudyard has spoken!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

C’mon man … ‘cut aways’ of arms have historical precedence …

 

[earlwb]

Here is a pic of my Indian Wall Gun. It may have been one used in Jaipur as one of their fortress defense guns. The Majaraja had budgeted and commissioned them at the time. This was in the late 1700’s to early 1800’s.

The smoothbore wall guns were still amazingly accurate though. Many of them could hit a man size target several hundred meters away. The rifled wall guns could push that range out even farther.

View attachment 169626

 

[rickystl]

C’mon man … ‘cut aways’ of arms have historical precedence …

Hi Flint. Sorry I included your name in this project. I was confident I would get repercussions. LOL So I probably should have left your name out. My apologies. Of course, you can still back out. No hard feelings. LOL

I've seen the TouTube video of the cut-away breech section of a Torador barrel that Rudyard mentions. The problem is (maybe just for me) is that the video only shows this breech section for like 5 seconds.

Interesting that many of the auctions believe these big wall guns are rare. But they're not. I have seen many over the last 40+ years. Their realized auction prices, while usually more than I paid, still don't reflect a large collector interest. However, their historical point of use is interesting. And they do indeed make great display pieces. In fact, there are currently three of these for sale at one current auction this week in CA. One has a barrel that's 85.5 inches long. With an OAL of 108.5 inches. LOL

Rudyard: I respect your opinions. And will take your comments under advisement. Generally speaking, you are correct.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Maybe someone could turn a new breech section to replace the old one you cut off and join it to the old barrel, you could at least display it that way. I believe I hear rumblings from Rudyard all the way from New Zealand!

One idea that popped in my head might be to use a shorter section (due to weight) of the front section of the cut-off barrel for a build of an early European style matchlock. I notice the round barrel has very little taper going to the muzzle. So I guessing the barrel wall thickness even at the barrel's mid point is likely very thick. Maybe have Bobby Hoyt burnish the bore, thread and install a new breech plug, less a tang.
Just speculating.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Hi Earl

I remember seeing your wall gun. Appears to be in a bit better condition than mine.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

While the idea of cutting up a historical artifact pains me and is something I would never do, Rick certainly has plenty of spare historical positive Karma for always sharing his extensive collection of eastern arms and knowledge!

If you do go through with it and want to re use the rest of the barrel on a European build, it could be a good opportunity to make a very early musket.

 

[Rudyard]

Don't give him Ideas ! .The fortress of HRH Jaipur is a magnificent place but once the Pensions stopped in 47. the' Ex Rulers' couldn't afford to maintain such places .I only visited three 'Ex Ruler' Maharajahs each held court in style but their palaces where falling apart & deep in dust . I did buy two cased double rifles from HRH Nagod , He was out when we first called so we called later & he held court by hurricane lamps on the Porch . When he rolled up from his' Shikar' in a short base Land rover holding an Army & Navy Boxlock double in 450 400 Nitro , his bearers carrying a pig on a pole . They .might be on their uppers but they still had style. HRH Mahair was the other who we teed up stuff from, mostly matchlocks but it didn't pan out ".
'See the fun ,' With a roll of your eyes and a slight nod of the head. An old' Mull' I was not, but I did have a taste of it . Regards Rudyard /

" Youth was cheap wherfore we sold it," Gold was good we hoped to hold it, And today we know the fullness of our gains " a line from Kipling's 'Xmas in India' . seemed fitting