How Big ya need …to feel Safe?

[deerstalkert]

Where is the best place to shoot a large bear? Head, chest, heart?

from the next zip code.
if it is a defense situation, and you have nerves of titanium, and have the time right in the bridge of the nose.
trouble is that tiny spot is going to be everywhere but stationary is a charge.

maybe i will tell my experience.
once upon a time in the later part of the last century , i was out looking for a missing cow in the back forty. the rest of the herd had come in so i figured she was either stuck in a bog or sick.
that little voice in the back of my head said " hey stupid, take your side arm!" so being an obedient servant of that voice, i strapped on a 41 cal short gun.
as i was walking out the door that not so little voice belonging to the better half said" hey stupid, you are taking a rifle aren't you?"
so being the obedient servant................
I grabbed a lever gun in 45/70 out of the pickup.
i went through the meadows to the back pasture and just stepped out of the tree line when i heard a Woof!
it was hard to spin toward that sound with my pants sagging but when i did there was a good sized bear of a later weighed 332 pounds.

he was under the mistaken impression that i was after taking his steaks away and he wasn't after clarifying that mistake except by turning me into hamburger. he started for me from 30 yards and all i had time to do was to stumble backwards and trip over a log. which broke my left femur. which hurt let me tell you.
when i fell i lost the Marlin and while the stars were dimming in my head i drew the 41.
that sorehead stuck his head over the log and received a 210g lug up through his tongue and into his brain.

when i dragged myself back to the house the wife came as close to fainting as i ever saw. all that was wrong with me was the two bones where there should have been one, and a thick coat of bear blood.
had a friend skin out that sorehead while i mended and brain tanned it. i pat him and say good morning A$$h*le every day.
and i still feel the leg close to 30 years later.
story told so those that want to hunt in bear country can sleep better at night.

 

[Africa58double]

We all are aware… Modern firearms are not Permitted to be discussed On this site, Rite? If it was a Muzzleloader- ok… Yet let’s keep the information on topic. Muzzleloader rifles. I appreciate the post,Really I do, yet there are many “Unmentionable” Bruin Stories that could be told.

from the next zip code.
if it is a defense situation, and you have nerves of titanium, and have the time right in the bridge of the nose.
trouble is that tiny spot is going to be everywhere but stationary is a charge.

maybe i will tell my experience.
once upon a time in the later part of the last century , i was out looking for a missing cow in the back forty. the rest of the herd had come in so i figured she was either stuck in a bog or sick.
that little voice in the back of my head said " hey stupid, take your side arm!" so being an obedient servant of that voice, i strapped on a 41 cal short gun.
as i was walking out the door that not so little voice belonging to the better half said" hey stupid, you are taking a rifle aren't you?"
so being the obedient servant................
I grabbed a lever gun in 45/70 out of the pickup.
i went through the meadows to the back pasture and just stepped out of the tree line when i heard a Woof!
it was hard to spin toward that sound with my pants sagging but when i did there was a good sized bear of a later weighed 332 pounds.

he was under the mistaken impression that i was after taking his steaks away and he wasn't after clarifying that mistake except by turning me into hamburger. he started for me from 30 yards and all i had time to do was to stumble backwards and trip over a log. which broke my left femur. which hurt let me tell you.
when i fell i lost the Marlin and while the stars were dimming in my head i drew the 41.
that sorehead stuck his head over the log and received a 210g lug up through his tongue and into his brain.

when i dragged myself back to the house the wife came as close to fainting as i ever saw. all that was wrong with me was the two bones where there should have been one, and a thick coat of bear blood.
had a friend skin out that sorehead while i mended and brain tanned it. i pat him and say good morning A$$h*le every day.
and i still feel the leg close to 30 years later.
story told so those that want to hunt in bear country can sleep better at night.

 

[Stykbow]

@deerstalkert, that’s some scary stuff. You, my friend, kept your head and saved your own life. I would have been safe in that situation unless it was a manure eating bear because I would have made a serious mess outta my pants.

 

[deerstalkert]

there satisfied ? no unmentionables!

 

[deerstalkert]

@deerstalkert, that’s some scary stuff. You, my friend, kept your head and saved your own life. I would have been safe in that situation unless it was a manure eating bear because I would have made a serious mess outta my pants.

i did make a mess in my pants when that bone broke.

 

[Africa58double]

I edited my response, Don’t feel I don’t appreciate the post.Honestly!

 

[hanshi]

Never having hunted, been around or even seen a wild one there's really nothing much I can add. But I can say I wouldn't be in grizzly country even with a small group unless we all were well armed and help was not far away. The likelihood of being attacked is pretty small anyway; but that's no comfort when a toothy ball of fur is only 2 seconds from impact.
I've had a few encounters with blacks and one was up very close and personal. I never enter the bush unarmed and it isn't because of bears. Down in my native Georgia the #1 threat is and has been feral dog packs. I've been threatened a number of times when I'd accidentally wander into a pack's territory. I know how to act and got out safely. One couple not far from us didn't fare so well. The wife was out on her regular afternoon walk and was attacked and killed by a pack. When the husband noticed she was late coming back he went looking for her. He found her "body" but was also attacked and killed. It took virtually the entire sheriff's department to wipe out this pack.

This question basically gives two fundamental choices; #1. best rifle for the hunt at hand. #2. How likely should one, him/her self, expect to run across a grizzly. If expecting possible encounters I would want the most lethal caliber & projectile available to me. But for simple elk hunting is the grizzly's range something more appropriate makes more sense. As a compromise nothing less than a .54 would interest me; something bigger maybe?

 

[Africa58double]

Yes a .54 or larger is certainly a requirement to be Elk/Black Bear hunting and… If on the off chance you run into a Bruin that’s set on tearing you apart- Well, Gods Grace and a steady aim is top priority to have in your pocket. Suffice that to say,with ANY firearm you may only get One good shot in the time allotted?!?!?!

 

[Africa58double]

It can be discussed to no end … However it’s been done and suggested in manufacture booklets-

I’ve looked into the Double patched ball Load, Short Start first,then second… then as One seat both together. Slight decrease in Charge… and do that in one of my Double barrels. A Short range Defense load to use with the Rear Sight Ghost ring. That would be approx 560 grains of double hitting lead.

This has been referred to as “Loaded for bear”. Yet a single 600 grain .58 maxi May just be better. I did read somewhere There is a certain affect that has a name when two projectiles impact simultaneously…. Dramatically and exponentially increasing impact affect. Recoil would be like the effect of a solid single 560gr projectile.

A double ball load (I use a hardened 8Bhn Cast already) in one barrel For quick Ghost ring site and first trigger pull, Then a Single Heavy Projectile set up on my Express triple leaf sight for the hunting distance shot. My rifle shoots these projectiles accurately out to 80 yards without issue. And wouldn’t be difficult to reach just past 100 yards.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Seems like a lot of questions from one who has hunted dangerous game. You should know the answers.

 

[Africa58double]

Referring to my 1st and Original Post, plus a few others again afterward when thread derailed.

The Only question was…. “What do others use?”. A 54, a .62 or a .72 ? I’ve asked that and what powder/projectiles etc. a few times in this thread when I explained- What I will use. Plus my Experience in past years is Centerfire Unmentionable rifles. I was wanting to know what is used when your a Blackpowder hunting advocate in that type of hunting environment.

“Tools and Equipment for the Job”

Seems like a lot of questions from one who has hunted dangerous game. You should know the answers.

 

[nkbj]

Predatory critters would be the final grains that tipped the scale on me getting a dream gun.
Side by side, one sighted in barrel having very slow twist rifling. The other barrel smooth and slightly larger bored to accommodate the same diameter ball.
As to the caliber, as large as I could comfortably deal with seeing as it would be a shotgun and would be used as such.

 

[Africa58double]

I like the way you think Sir.

Predatory critters would be the final grains that tipped the scale on me getting a dream gun.
Side by side, one sighted in barrel having very slow twist rifling. The other barrel smooth and slightly larger bored to accommodate the same diameter ball.
As to the caliber, as large as I could comfortably deal with seeing as it would be a shotgun and would be used as such.

 

[Africa58double]

In Montana you are able to carry a sidearm. My choice will be a Ruger Old Army. I’ll need to look further into this,as I have the Ruger already… yet A harder cast is going to be required. If I need, I can get a auxiliary cylinder and use cartridge with black powder instead of cap and ball/ yet that’s splitting hairs and is unmentionable here. Again as a back up and small game getter.

The Kaido 255 Mould is my plan and then play with Lead. I use 8-9 Bhn water quenched For the .58 Double rifle and Bullet/Ball accuracy is great!

So the 45 ROA is next up.

Anyone carry a Smokey Sidearm with muzzleloader rifle hunting ,where legal?

 

[appalichian hunter]

Yes.

 

[Rudyard]

I only wanted to descend the Klina Klini river from Shilling Lake nr Klina Klini store .to knight inlet which took me 18 days .I had a double 16 bore ex flint put to cap with ball in the left & shot in the right No sights just the rib. I wanted to pop small game to augment my food No need or desire to kill other . The ball was just for 'in case' I think both had 2 & a half drams That's fairly' Big country' . Knight Inlett is noted for its Grizzly bears . I think bears are intellgent enough to read hostility & Iv'e frightened a few very close up & personal but am here still to tell you . Might be my after shave ? If after a few days of stuggles I stink worse than the bears .probably . That's my take on the subject What do you want to kill them for anyway ? .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Africa58double]

“What do you want to kill them for anyway?”

I will clearly answer that- Regards to Large Grizzly Bears

“I most certainly Do Not Want to!”
At no point in this thread have I suggested otherwise. They are Majestic and Amazing In so many ways.

Yet when hunting Other animals and have Recently Killed Game Down on ground, That! Alone ,can attract a Large Carnivore to take your recently harvested head of game… Also while in that area where such animals are… and eat, I for one “Do Not want to Be Eaten.”

Montana is Beutiful and I’d like to hunt there with my Employer…Also with one of my favorite Weapons of choice… A Muzzleloader. As My Boss wants to kill and hunt a Elk, I will seek A Black Bear. So imagine a Elk or Black Bear on the ground after the dinner bell has been sounded.

What I’m discussing is Defense against said animal,So that as to the event that one would need to Shoot such a animal after attempting to use Bear spray and deter
If time allows.

That should sum it up.

I only wanted to descend the Klina Klini river from Shilling Lake nr Klina Klini store .to knight inlet which took me 18 days .I had a double 16 bore ex flint put to cap with ball in the left & shot in the right No sights just the rib. I wanted to pop small game to augment my food No need or desire to kill other . The ball was just for 'in case' I think both had 2 & a half drams That's fairly' Big country' . Knight Inlett is noted for its Grizzly bears . I think bears are intellgent enough to read hostility & Iv'e frightened a few very close up & personal but am here still to tell you . Might be my after shave ? If after a few days of stuggles I stink worse than the bears .probably . That's my take on the subject What do you want to kill them for anyway ? .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Africa58double]

Perhaps a small Analogy with some reciprocity if possible.

At a Football game the Kicker has a “Goal” to achieve. He Has his time frame, Training for season… Preparing for his Objective. Everyone knows you can’t Rough the Kicker, Penelties can occur.

Then Why does He where “Protective Pads”

It is “Precautionary measures” for being in that environment and participating in that sport.

Same For the Sport of Hunting.
Simply, precautionary measures.

 

[Brokenbear]

No help from me but a few questions ...

Some states have severely limiting regs ..some like iron sights only ..minimum cal or energy, not capable of more than ONE shot?? (revolving cylinders/multi barreled guns not allowed!)

In my state you cannot carry a firearm archery hunting ..that is until a few hapless archery hunters happened upon hidden drug/grow operations ..now if you are a licensed conceal carry permit holder you may carry any time any where ..so that may be worth checking out ..

Our muzzle loading season I think was once that way but now it is an "alternative weapon season" which allows centerfire handgun, archery and muzzleloaders ..so since we now have mountain lions and black bear any Joe can carry when the main intended weapon is slow load/ lower energy weapons

Having experienced riding into an Idaho spike camp from up wind after dark and encountering an enraged fuzzy wuzzie.. who had just bitten a full gallon can of Coleman in half ..I would carry the hardest shooting high capacity cannon I could/would faithfully pack and stay legal

Bear

 

[Africa58double]

In Montana- I spoke to Widlife rep who specifically stated a Double barrel was legal. In Montana you can carry a sidearm without permit as long as your doing the outdoor activity we are doing and some others that are related.

Always best to know the laws where you are going to be and Abide to them.

No help from me but a few questions ...

Some states have severely limiting regs ..some like iron sights only ..minimum cal or energy, not capable of more than ONE shot?? (revolving cylinders/multi barreled guns not allowed!)

In my state you cannot carry a firearm archery hunting ..that is until a few hapless archery hunters happened upon hidden drug/grow operations ..now if you are a licensed conceal carry permit holder you may carry any time any where ..so that may be worth checking out ..

Our muzzle loading season I think was once that way but now it is an "alternative weapon season" which allows centerfire handgun, archery and muzzleloaders ..so since we now have mountain lions and black bear any Joe can carry when the main intended weapon is slow load/ lower energy weapons

Having experienced riding into an Idaho spike camp from up wind after dark and encountering an enraged fuzzy wuzzie.. who had just bitten a full gallon can of Coleman in half ..I would carry the hardest shooting high capacity cannon I could/would faithfully pack and stay legal

Bear