I would absolutely love to learn to build longrifles. But I'm young and don't have the cash for nuch equipment. I have acces to my grandpa's shop and all his tools, but he isn't a wood worker or blacksmith or anything. He just has drills saws and the like. I'd like to learn to build. I just don't know where to start and what it would cost me. Should I start with a kit or dive head long into a pile of parts and a piece of wood? I'm realy worried about the shaping and inletting of a stock. It looks nearly impossible from where I'm standing lol. Adice or words of encouragement?
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how and where should i start?
- Thread starter newtothis
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
:thumbsup: good place to start...
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cate...catId=4&subId=38&styleId=137&partNum=BOOK-RAL
Where are you from??
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cate...catId=4&subId=38&styleId=137&partNum=BOOK-RAL
Where are you from??
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hoochiepapa
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,853
- Reaction score
- 7
I can't remember Jerry Huddleston's exact words, but it's something like this:
If you're always afraid to start something, you'll never start something.
I have not built very many rifles. And my first one shames me a bit, because I had no idea what I was doing. But one thing about me is that I'm not afraid to try anything. I sold all my centerfires but one so that I could afford engraving equipment, and the trip to engraving school. And I'm diving right in engraving what some would call difficult, and have gotten some great encouragement and praise from folks.
My advice is to get a kit from someone like Pecatonica River, or Track of the Wolf, (there are some others) and get a good book on building. One that some seem to like the most is by Chuck Dixon, "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". Study it. and study it somemore. And ask questions here. There are some very gifted gun builders here, and they're not afraid to share what they know.
I would, if I were you, start with a semi-inlet, where the barrel, lock, and ramrod channel are inlet for you. After a few of those, then progress to ones where the lock is not inlet, and then proceed further, to where only the barrel and ramrod are inlet. Believe me, once you've built one, then you have entered the "dark side" as some call it, and you'll want more. Study as many longrifle books as you can, handle longrifles if you have access to them, go to libraries and get books there.
Sounds like your grandpa has tools, use his if you can, and buy what you need as you go along. I was a mechanic for many years, and those tools aren't for building guns. Find ways to make money and save, save, save.
Take the plunge, you won't be sorry.
If you're always afraid to start something, you'll never start something.
I have not built very many rifles. And my first one shames me a bit, because I had no idea what I was doing. But one thing about me is that I'm not afraid to try anything. I sold all my centerfires but one so that I could afford engraving equipment, and the trip to engraving school. And I'm diving right in engraving what some would call difficult, and have gotten some great encouragement and praise from folks.
My advice is to get a kit from someone like Pecatonica River, or Track of the Wolf, (there are some others) and get a good book on building. One that some seem to like the most is by Chuck Dixon, "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". Study it. and study it somemore. And ask questions here. There are some very gifted gun builders here, and they're not afraid to share what they know.
I would, if I were you, start with a semi-inlet, where the barrel, lock, and ramrod channel are inlet for you. After a few of those, then progress to ones where the lock is not inlet, and then proceed further, to where only the barrel and ramrod are inlet. Believe me, once you've built one, then you have entered the "dark side" as some call it, and you'll want more. Study as many longrifle books as you can, handle longrifles if you have access to them, go to libraries and get books there.
Sounds like your grandpa has tools, use his if you can, and buy what you need as you go along. I was a mechanic for many years, and those tools aren't for building guns. Find ways to make money and save, save, save.
Take the plunge, you won't be sorry.
I'm sort of in a similar situation. I'd like to ultimately build my own rifle, but lack the knowledge/skill/tools.....so, what I'm doing now is reading everything I can regarding wood and metal work and rifle building. Check out this link:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartList.aspx?catID=4&subID=38&styleID=137
I'm reading books from Dixon, Ravenshear and Buchele right now. I want to see exactly what it takes and then decide how to move forward. Personally, I'm thinking of a kit from Jim Chambers to start with and then go from there. My philosphy is just to enjoy the journey and not focus on the destination.
Tom
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartList.aspx?catID=4&subID=38&styleID=137
I'm reading books from Dixon, Ravenshear and Buchele right now. I want to see exactly what it takes and then decide how to move forward. Personally, I'm thinking of a kit from Jim Chambers to start with and then go from there. My philosphy is just to enjoy the journey and not focus on the destination.
Tom
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dear newtothis,
welcome to the muzzleloading fraternity, and welcome to those who are intimidated by the skill of some of the senior folks on this web.
some words of encouragement:
-- you're on the right site. there are a boatload of folks here who are knowledgeable, generous and supportive. there are a bunch of really good tutorials on this site as well. also, if you get stuck, the search feature will help.
-- if you've got the gumption to consider trying to build your own rifle, you probably have the stick- to- it necessary to see the product through. as it says in Deuteronomy, "be ye not afraid..."
-- although it isn't 'easy,' i believe that just about anyone with a modicum of patience and mechanical skill can build a rifle. there are some who would argue that they don't or can't do this, but i would posit that they need a boost of self confidence. their work might not rival the quality of some of the folks here, but it would be safe to shoot and be satisfying to know that this was their own work done with their own hands.
in my opinion, the coolest tools are the ones you make yourself.
by way of advice:
go for it!
more advice:
-- i agree with the notion of a precarve from Track of the Wolf or Pecatonica or Jim Chambers (depending on your budget). I started with a Tennessee kit from Track of the Wolf as a Christmas present for my wife. then i was hooked and there was no turning back. built some fancier rifles, but the mountain styles have always appealed to me. can't explain it, but the architecture of these guns is fascinating to me.
just checked the price at Track of their Tenn Mt rifle... wow- costs have crept up since i built mine!
-- get a few books on ML rifle building. if you can get a used one, my favorite is Peter Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County, which i think is now out of print. When i bought my copy i thought it a great extravagance, but it more than saved me its purchase price in parts i didn't ruin and bad language i didn't use, as well as the odd blood stain on the wood. The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle is also a book you should own.
-- if you do decide on a kit from track, go with the .45 caliber. this is arguably the most versatile caliber available in a rifle (although i'm partial to the .40, but that's just me).
other comments:
the term "kit" might be misleading. this isn't like the model airplane kits you built as a kid, but will require a surprising amount of work on your part, since the parts won't fit exactly as you want them. there will be some inletting required, even with a pre- carved stock.
i assume that your grandfather has some sharpening stones and some chisels. if he has chisels and no stones, get the stones (or go the wet/dry sandpaper route - send me a private message for the details on this) if he has stones but no chisels, you'll need at least a few, but don't feel compelled to rush out and buy a bunch of sets of woodworking tools. often as not, you'll end up using only a few of the tools in the 'set,' and the others will just sit in the box and snicker at you for having cost you money while providing no benefit.
You'll want to get and keep your tools scary sharp. sharp enough to shave with is the bare minimum... get them sharper if you can. also, get some heavy leather and make a strop.
i discovered entirely by accident that there's no sin in getting the parts and then taking a long analytical look at what tools you will need to get them together. again: resist the temptation to go hog wild on tools.
oops! i almost forgot- there are some really good DVDs on American Pioneer Video. You can rent these for a modest sum, and the quality is pretty good, and the instruction is really excellent.
Best of luck with your first build- you're gonna have a great time!
welcome to the muzzleloading fraternity, and welcome to those who are intimidated by the skill of some of the senior folks on this web.
some words of encouragement:
-- you're on the right site. there are a boatload of folks here who are knowledgeable, generous and supportive. there are a bunch of really good tutorials on this site as well. also, if you get stuck, the search feature will help.
-- if you've got the gumption to consider trying to build your own rifle, you probably have the stick- to- it necessary to see the product through. as it says in Deuteronomy, "be ye not afraid..."
-- although it isn't 'easy,' i believe that just about anyone with a modicum of patience and mechanical skill can build a rifle. there are some who would argue that they don't or can't do this, but i would posit that they need a boost of self confidence. their work might not rival the quality of some of the folks here, but it would be safe to shoot and be satisfying to know that this was their own work done with their own hands.
in my opinion, the coolest tools are the ones you make yourself.
by way of advice:
go for it!
more advice:
-- i agree with the notion of a precarve from Track of the Wolf or Pecatonica or Jim Chambers (depending on your budget). I started with a Tennessee kit from Track of the Wolf as a Christmas present for my wife. then i was hooked and there was no turning back. built some fancier rifles, but the mountain styles have always appealed to me. can't explain it, but the architecture of these guns is fascinating to me.
just checked the price at Track of their Tenn Mt rifle... wow- costs have crept up since i built mine!
-- get a few books on ML rifle building. if you can get a used one, my favorite is Peter Alexander's The Gunsmith of Grenville County, which i think is now out of print. When i bought my copy i thought it a great extravagance, but it more than saved me its purchase price in parts i didn't ruin and bad language i didn't use, as well as the odd blood stain on the wood. The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle is also a book you should own.
-- if you do decide on a kit from track, go with the .45 caliber. this is arguably the most versatile caliber available in a rifle (although i'm partial to the .40, but that's just me).
other comments:
the term "kit" might be misleading. this isn't like the model airplane kits you built as a kid, but will require a surprising amount of work on your part, since the parts won't fit exactly as you want them. there will be some inletting required, even with a pre- carved stock.
i assume that your grandfather has some sharpening stones and some chisels. if he has chisels and no stones, get the stones (or go the wet/dry sandpaper route - send me a private message for the details on this) if he has stones but no chisels, you'll need at least a few, but don't feel compelled to rush out and buy a bunch of sets of woodworking tools. often as not, you'll end up using only a few of the tools in the 'set,' and the others will just sit in the box and snicker at you for having cost you money while providing no benefit.
You'll want to get and keep your tools scary sharp. sharp enough to shave with is the bare minimum... get them sharper if you can. also, get some heavy leather and make a strop.
i discovered entirely by accident that there's no sin in getting the parts and then taking a long analytical look at what tools you will need to get them together. again: resist the temptation to go hog wild on tools.
oops! i almost forgot- there are some really good DVDs on American Pioneer Video. You can rent these for a modest sum, and the quality is pretty good, and the instruction is really excellent.
Best of luck with your first build- you're gonna have a great time!
I wasn't smart enough to be afraid when I started :grin:
Im a relative newby, just working on my 4th right now, a 20 gauge fowler on a Pecatonica precarve. In addition to the excellent advice already given... If you do not have a particular gun in mind, then start with a Lyman GPR kit. There is just enough left to finish on those to give you a taste of some wood and metal fitting and finishing. You can also customize as you like. And you end up with a decent very serviceable firearm when you are done. Another bonus is that you don't have to invest $800 in a parts build set you may not want to complete.
My 2 cents.
Im a relative newby, just working on my 4th right now, a 20 gauge fowler on a Pecatonica precarve. In addition to the excellent advice already given... If you do not have a particular gun in mind, then start with a Lyman GPR kit. There is just enough left to finish on those to give you a taste of some wood and metal fitting and finishing. You can also customize as you like. And you end up with a decent very serviceable firearm when you are done. Another bonus is that you don't have to invest $800 in a parts build set you may not want to complete.
My 2 cents.
rafterob
62 Cal.
I built a flintlock longrifle for my Son for $200 which came out quite well. I referenced the gun building tutorial posted on this forum as well as asked questions here. I bought a "second" stock from Pecatonica for $60, that was my single largest purchase. Most parts I got off ebay. I believe I bought the trigger guard and trigger new from Track of the Wolf.I took my time getting good deals on ebay, I think I spent 6 months acquiring parts. I am proud of this rifle, it shoots well and looks fine. So you can get started on the cheap. The best advice is to take your time on a build and stop before you screw something up. Then come back to it refreshed and (if necessary) armed with further information or advice.
Before even considering to place an order for whatever starting point you wish to go with, read and STUDY at least 2 good "how to" books...my preferences are "Recreating The American Longrifle" by Buchele, Alexander and Shumway and then Dixon's book. "Recreating......" is my first choice because the order of procedure is enumerated while not so in Dixon's book. Also Mike Brooks' building tutorial found at the head of this "forum" has excellent pics on the many operations of building. None of the "parts sets" {kits} from the various suppliers are as easy a "build" as one of the factory sand, finish and assemble kits, but w/ the "parts sets" you'll learn a whole lot more. I would say the Chambers' parts sets are the most refined and have all top quality components but also the most expensive. Pecatonica and Dunlaps parts sets are a good buy and less expensive than the Chambers and TOW's part sets are also good if some of the parts aren't backordered. Hopefully, most of the tools needed will become apparent as you proceed but if not, post your questions w/ pics if possible and you'll receive the info....Good luck.....Fred
I agree 100% with getting a book or two or three to begin with and studying the manure out of it. Then getting some pieces of scrap wood and monkeying around with it. Learning how it feels to push a chisel in and take a chunk out. How much force it takes, how to make a channel without just digging in etc. Also... I started with steel furniture for my first few builds, and it is a pain! It's cheaper then the brass, but it's not easy to manipulate. So if you have a poor factory fit you have to get creative with the wood, or smack the bajeebus out of the steel.
Edit: If you get a stock blank it's not that bad, you can custom fit the wood to the steel, but a pre-carved kit can have some big gaps in the early stages.
As for tools, I got a cheap chisel set from the nearby hobby lobby, $5 I think. I just take em to a fine honing stone when they start to take some effort to get into the wood. I got a "gun smith" screw driver set (flat heads that have parallel sides instead of the V profile) with a online gun smithing course I took. Cheap or free or included is pretty nice, they just wear out faster then quality tools.
Edit: If you get a stock blank it's not that bad, you can custom fit the wood to the steel, but a pre-carved kit can have some big gaps in the early stages.
As for tools, I got a cheap chisel set from the nearby hobby lobby, $5 I think. I just take em to a fine honing stone when they start to take some effort to get into the wood. I got a "gun smith" screw driver set (flat heads that have parallel sides instead of the V profile) with a online gun smithing course I took. Cheap or free or included is pretty nice, they just wear out faster then quality tools.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
You shouldn't have to pay a lot for tools, use hand tools...
I built mine back in the 80s and there just weren't any books out that I knew of...I just dove in...
Get the Foxfire V book and read the section on muzzleloading rifles...One of the guys in there is a young Hershel House, building a simple, plain rifle...You can tell he uses mainly hand tools...
Wanna know how good he is now??? His rifles are very collectable in fact his brother made Mel Gibson's rifle in "The Patriot"...
Another fellow in there is a guy named Jim Chambers...Go to www.flintlocks.com he owns the place and you can't buy better than what he makes...But...You don't want to start with that priced kit...In fact, you can buy an off the shelf cheaper kit like a Lyman to learn how to brown, stain and finish a gun...
There are lots of resources out there today that weren't there 25 years ago when many of us got started...
I built mine back in the 80s and there just weren't any books out that I knew of...I just dove in...
Get the Foxfire V book and read the section on muzzleloading rifles...One of the guys in there is a young Hershel House, building a simple, plain rifle...You can tell he uses mainly hand tools...
Wanna know how good he is now??? His rifles are very collectable in fact his brother made Mel Gibson's rifle in "The Patriot"...
Another fellow in there is a guy named Jim Chambers...Go to www.flintlocks.com he owns the place and you can't buy better than what he makes...But...You don't want to start with that priced kit...In fact, you can buy an off the shelf cheaper kit like a Lyman to learn how to brown, stain and finish a gun...
There are lots of resources out there today that weren't there 25 years ago when many of us got started...
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Welcome aboard,When and if choosing a parts set from one of the companies mentioned pay attention to the availability.I ordered the ingrediants for a Issac haines rifle for my father in law in Feb.,There was a short wait on the stock, and the barrel and lock etc were all in stock.I got the hardware right off quick,I just got the stock 2 days ago and my "in stock" barrel and lock are still in limbo.If it says there might be wait, good idea to call and ask how long is a "short wait" and what is actually in stock.
That being said,get a hold of the 2 books mentioned above and some decent chisels/gouges and practice on some scap wood,it will be time well spent .Enjoy
That being said,get a hold of the 2 books mentioned above and some decent chisels/gouges and practice on some scap wood,it will be time well spent .Enjoy
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