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Historicly correct

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the HC/PC people would not have lasted one day back in the time period they would like to play in make be leave.
Are you certain of this? We have taken the time to actually LEARN the skills used in the period, and would likely pass in the period without too much trouble. It is not make-believe for me...
 
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Due to the HC correct police (one in particular) on this forum I will no longer post or read these. I quit this forum years back because of the same comments this is my 50th year shooting building and hunting with blk pwder firearms. I love helping new shooters get started. So what if there rifle is an Investarms,TC or Traditions it is a start maybe down the road they will be more "HC". I wear Pc correct clothing even tho I have Hanes under my skins bad me 2 of my rifles have vent liners beat me with a wet wipin stick to the rest of you Grenadier Zonie Stumpkiller and the rest may the Gods watch over you
Broken rod

First, apologies to Old Wyatt.
I'm sorry to see this sort of thing here. I'm fairly new to this site, but 45 years building and shooting black powder, 20 plus working with historical sites, and living history. Yes, we encourage authenticity, but realize there are many reasons, medical, and financial for us to compromise when it comes to being strictly HC. At the heart of what we are doing is education. All of us have something to learn, and not one of us is, or would want to be 100% HC, so lets try to be kind, as well as realistic, about sharing our perceptions about what is HC.
Happy Thanksgiving!
 
First, apologies to Old Wyatt.
I'm sorry to see this sort of thing here. I'm fairly new to this site, but 45 years building and shooting black powder, 20 plus working with historical sites, and living history. Yes, we encourage authenticity, but realize there are many reasons, medical, and financial for us to compromise when it comes to being strictly HC. At the heart of what we are doing is education. All of us have something to learn, and not one of us is, or would want to be 100% HC, so lets try to be kind, as well as realistic, about sharing our perceptions about what is HC.
Happy Thanksgiving!
As a lifetime student and educator, I cannot stand by when people have the wrong information or have been misinformed. As I should, I provide them with the information necessary to move forward. Most are happy to learn but there are some that prefer willful ignorance. And then there is a third category that prefers to criticise people for trying to help because it somehow upsets them but that provide no useful information themselves.

As the saying goes - people who say it can't be done should get out of the way of those actually doing what others said was impossible. We all fail forwards to success. Do you wish to come along on this journey of discovery or be the stone in the middle of the path that tries to impede progress & learning.....?
 
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HAPPY THANKSGIVING to one and all!.may you all have many more!.
 
isn't playing pretend what children do, and then they grow up? the HC/PC people would not have lasted one day back in the time period they would like to play in make be leave. live and let live.

Nice Grenade!.......:thumbs up:
 
I'm a newbie to this forum but have been on this earth going on 70 years now. I come here to learn, and yes, you can teach an Old Dog new tricks!
I've seen forums come and go because of what happens when folks get their feathers ruffled over things that when all is said and done, do not really matter. Believe it or not, life is short. Don't waste it arguing over trivial matters. No doubt my post and the use of the word "trivial" will ruffle some delicate feathers, but the damage has already been done. I even hesitate to mention any of the BP arms I have because I don't want to add fuel to someones fire. Eat some turkey, consume your favorite beverage and have a great and blessed Thanksgiving.
Not even close to being HC, dixie5032
 
isn't playing pretend what children do, and then they grow up? the HC/PC people would not have lasted one day back in the time period they would like to play in make be leave. live and let live.


That's a roll on the floor laughing reply... :rolleyes:

Oh well shucks... Made it through multiple deployments, but according to this fella us guys just wouldn't cut it back in the day. Guess I'll get offended and hang up the horn. :D
 
As a lifetime student and educator, I cannot stand by when people have the wrong information or have been misinformed. As I should, I provide them with the information necessary to move forward. Most are happy to learn but there are some that prefer willful ignorance. And then there is a third category that prefers to criticise people for trying to help because it somehow upsets them but that provide no useful information themselves.

As the saying goes - people who say it can't be done should get out of the way of those actually doing what others said was impossible. We all fail forwards to success. Do you wish to come along on this journey of discovery or be the stone in the middle of the path that tries to impede progress & learning.....?

How do you know you have the "right" information? I don't see your information as moving people forward, I see it as promoting your own viewpoint. I suppose as an educator you feel compelled to "correct" us, but quite a few of us are perfectly happy at the level we're at and have no desire to go HC/PC, which I'm not sure you understand or accept. You have defined what is acceptable to YOU, but it's nit-pickish and exclusive to many others. Me, I'm happy where I am; a shooter, not a reenactor. Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't dress in 18th century clothes.
 
If you read the article, the resemblance is superficial. The handle is made of softer iron. Then there is the issue that they are not HC/PC for our periods of interest. Furthermore, use on one part of the globe in no way indicates universal use or use elsewhere.

Those are not striker knives.

Think the other members took care of this one. ;)

The "striker knife" thing was incidental, as the original poster makes pretty clear in his last post. The overall design, which is what people were objecting to, pre-dates 1970. I don't see anywhere anyone making a distinction between the overall form of the knife (notably, shape of the handle) and the use of said handle as a firestriker, until AFTER I posted that link, and that is a fairly transparent attempt to save face which I thought I was being very nice by not calling out at the time.

Put another way, are y'all willing to formally admit that had the knife been made of period iron and steel it would be PC? If not, why not? (Also, is this sudden interest in the carbon content of knife steel applicable to other repro knives? Do we know consider knives made of o-1 and W-1/2 to be "untraditional?" If not, why not?) Are you objecting to the object, or the suggestion that the object could be used in a particular way?

Oh, and Black Hand? If you scroll down a bit you will notice a forum devoted to reenacting events as far back as AD 950, and I don't see anything limiting this forum to North America (And even if it is written somewhere, leaving aside the issue of the Vinland colony, the dates sort of preclude that limitation anyway...) In any case, there is no rule written in the laws of God, Nature, or Man that says one cannot use two items from different period at the same time. That is a reenacting convention being imposed on the rest of us under the guise of "historical authenticity."

On a more general note the community at large: History is defined in large part as the study of change over time. This is not a minor thing - it is one of the things that makes History a distinct discipline. There is very little overlap between History as an academic discipline and reenacting. Even hard-core reenacting is either trying to feel for a moment that you have gotten inside someone else head by wearing their clothing and mimicking their actions. At the core it is about a subjective experience, not the study of history. Nothing wrong with that, but let us at least be honest with ourselves and with others about what we are trying to accomplish here...
 
How do you know you have the "right" information? I don't see your information as moving people forward, I see it as promoting your own viewpoint.
It is "right" because it is what those living at the time wrote/painted/made/recorded. I am promoting their viewpoint. And if you don't care, why do you keep posting as if you do...?
 
I try to dress "historically to a degree.
I wear "trade cloth" instead of commercial tan hide.
The closer you can come to the way it looked and was done during your main period of interest, the more you learn and the better you appreciate those who went before us.
But try to keep some perspective!
I am comfortable with my inner hypocrit ;-)
I mostly wear fruit of the looms when I am not trying my best guess at period "small clothes".
As for being totally historically accurate, try having your teeth filled traditionally (I did....Once...)
May cataract surgeries mean I can see, my modern knee & shoulder surgeries mean I can still walk and I can hold up the forend of my fusil, oxygen & non-historically correct medical treatment mean I'me still alive to enjoy shooting & a little hunting, and don't even make me think about kidney stones!(I used to think I was fairly pain tolerant, but imagine trying to force a spikey golfball thru a garden hose )-:
I like Cowboy's advice to the Wyatt's out there! :)
Do your best to be HC & still have fun, and remember that most of the critics would "HC" corpses long ago if the were totally "PC" & "HC".
You've got to find what suits YOU, while you make reasonable efforts to not look like a plastic sidewalk commando or shoot like one :)
Dave, aka The Curmudgeon
 
A few years ago I was the editor of of our club newsletter and encouraged members to join this forum. Some did and at a shoot I would remark about a particular thread and nearly all of them no longer participate because of the disagreements. They simply walked away as we do with many aspects of our lives.

This may be somewhat the same as discussing politics. Who has changed a political view on the Internet?

Some may have the knowledge and good information but once in a while, the delivery does not promote acceptance.
 
"As the Strawmen marched over the horizon, the sky went dark with a barrage of non-sequiturs. Our heroes stood fearless armed with only the truth. They could feel the cold gentle touch of snowflakes on their face. The wounded where everywhere. "

This is going to make a great book.:D
 
The "striker knife" thing was incidental, as the original poster makes pretty clear in his last post. The overall design, which is what people were objecting to, pre-dates 1970. I don't see anywhere anyone making a distinction between the overall form of the knife (notably, shape of the handle) and the use of said handle as a firestriker, until AFTER I posted that link, and that is a fairly transparent attempt to save face which I thought I was being very nice by not calling out at the time.
Then please go read the Damascus patchknife thread again. I objected to the knife/firesteel combination from the start...
"Personally, I'd never own/use one. A knife blade and a striker are tempered to a different hardness, and I have no desire to have a sharp end attached to my fire striker. Not to mention that if dropped, there is a very good chance your striker will shatter and you'll be left with a blade and no handle..." Post #3

"We have a specific time period stipulated for this site. The words Archeological findings don't give this a pass. What would give this a pass would be THE EXISTENCE OF HISTORICAL EVIDENCE OF SUCH AN ITEM IN THE COLONIES, something that is lacking and has never been provided (even when requested). If any of those who are attacking me can provide such evidence, I will gladly admit I am wrong. If you can't, perhaps you should read a few more period works and spend far less time thumbing through catalogs of fantasy manure made to separate the uninformed and gullible from their money..." Post # 32

"We must note that while the handle is integral, it is not a firesteel despite the coincidental resemblance. Even the text mentions the handle was made of iron because it was less laborious than adding a wood handle." Post #92

Put another way, are y'all willing to formally admit that had the knife been made of period iron and steel it would be PC? If not, why not?
No - because Norwegian knives are not period for the stated periods of interest for this forum. Just because we happen to have a forum dedicated to the Pre-Flintlock Wars doesn't mean this is the focus, as is patently obvious by the threads & topics. Also, as previously posted, the use of an item elsewhere on the planet does not mean they were used on this continent. People from Finland/Sweden/Norway didn't emigrate to this country in any great numbers until the 19th century. Also, this style of knife is found in BURIALS and has been recreated recently by artisans wanting to presumably advance the history of their country. So, in summary, still not PC or HC for the focus of this site...
 
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Random thoughts regarding this thread:
Say someone posts their thoughts about buying a .36 cap & ball. Someone else posts that a .44 is more powerful & better for defense. The original poster did not ask about a .44. Self defense was possibly not a concern (we don't know because it wasn't mentioned one way or the other). The post about a .44 is factual (a .44 IS more powerful). The post re a .44 is not a "personal attack" but merely an observation & relaying of information that whether of use to the original poster or not, may be of interest to a number of OTHER members reading the thread. Every member is free to use the information to help make an informed decision either now or in the future. Likewise, every member is free to ignore the information as irrelevant to them. I fail to see how posts re HC are any different. For me, what is sad is that some members seem to want to actively repress information, apparently assuming that if they are not interested, then no one else should be. If anyone thinks something is not important, all that they need to do is move on to the next (hopefully interesting to them) post. The Forum should be a source of ALL of the information possible to help as many as we can to enjoy whatever aspects of traditional muzzleloading that appeal to them.
 
Random thoughts regarding this thread:
Say someone posts their thoughts about buying a .36 cap & ball. Someone else posts that a .44 is more powerful & better for defense. The original poster did not ask about a .44. Self defense was possibly not a concern (we don't know because it wasn't mentioned one way or the other). The post about a .44 is factual (a .44 IS more powerful). The post re a .44 is not a "personal attack" but merely an observation & relaying of information that whether of use to the original poster or not, may be of interest to a number of OTHER members reading the thread. Every member is free to use the information to help make an informed decision either now or in the future. Likewise, every member is free to ignore the information as irrelevant to them. I fail to see how posts re HC are any different. For me, what is sad is that some members seem to want to actively repress information, apparently assuming that if they are not interested, then no one else should be. If anyone thinks something is not important, all that they need to do is move on to the next (hopefully interesting to them) post. The Forum should be a source of ALL of the information possible to help as many as we can to enjoy whatever aspects of traditional muzzleloading that appeal to them.


Yep!. If one person asks a question and a 1000 people read it, you could get a 1000 different answers.
Choose the answer you want and move on. But, remember those other 999 answers now become possible question points for the reaming 1000 people.

To ask a question, is to give birth to a thought, it takes on a life of it's own.

Posters should take great care when asking questions to make sure that they are in fact seeking answers and not validation of their own pre-conceptions . As evidence to the contrary will likely offend them.
 
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