Help with JJ Henry percussion rifle

[rbh350]

Hello everyone. I’m new to this forum and my experience with muzzle loading rifles but not to firearms.

I have a family passed down percussion rifle I’m trying to further identify. I'm interested in finding out the approximate age, origin, gain some history about and determine an approximate value. I have a son and grandsons that I would like to pass it onto someday.

The rifle has an overall length of approximately 50 inches. The caliber is .45-50. The side of the lock is marked, "JJ Henry" and "Philadelphia." There are no markings on the barrel that I can see. Sorry for my feet in the photo I have attached, it was the only way I could photograph the whole rifle. I also have a brass powder flask but I do not know if that came from the same "find" that produced the rifle.

The little history I have about the rifle is it came out an attic in Western NY State in the late 1940’s or early 1950's where we were living at that time. Both my Dad and Grandfather were carpenters and furniture makers by trade. The rifle stock needed some repair according to my Dad but I can’t determine where the repair was made. I do not know how much work was done on the rifle at that time. There was a percussion pistol with it that my Uncle took and it has been lost to time. They shot a powder charge out of it back in the 50's at least once, I have a vague memory of that event due to the large volume of smoke. Small boys remember those things. It hung in my parent's home until they passed a number of years ago.

The research I have done via the Internet have found references to JJ Henry and his family that appear to have been a family of gunsmiths in the PA region.

Any help or information would be helpful or at least point me in the right direction. Thank you in advance.....

 

[mooman76]

I can't help but nice looking gun anyway!

 

[Jim Blair]

Here's a previous discussion on J J Henry rifles-
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/267604/

It appears to have been converted from flint to percussion.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

My digging in my limited library indicates that John Joseph Henry was the grandson of William Henry who established a gunsmith shop in Lancaster Pennsylvania in 1745.

John Henry built guns in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania beginning in 1801 thru 1836.

He and his son created the J. Henry & Son gunsmithing company which moved to Boulton, Pennsylvania in 1825. Following the death of JJ this company became the Boulton Arms Works.

The Percussion lock (cap lock) became popular in the early 1820's so that would put the age of your gun sometime after that.

Because JJ died in 1836 the gun may have been made prior to that but it is possible that his son could have been involved in building it at a later date and used an old lockplate on it.

There is also the possibility that another gunsmith made the gun using a J.J. lock on it.

The wood is curly maple, a very popular wood for American longrifles.

The large patchbox is interesting because during the early 1920-1830 time frame large patchboxes were becoming less and less popular.
It is not unusual to see guns made after 1830 with much smaller patch boxes which gave way to the simple cap boxes popular in the 1840-1860s.

Is it possible for you to post photos of the opposite side of the gun? There may be some things that can tell us more.

Mr. Scots Jim may be right.
On closer examination of one of the photos the wood above the lock just behind the hammer looks like it may have been removed to accommodate a Flintlock.

Is the steel part of the lockplate in this area visible from the top of the gun?

 

[Rod Lassey]

Take a look at this:
http://asoac.org/bulletins/93_gabler+sadler_henrys.pdf

Rod

 

[rbh350]

I will take more photos tonight and re-examine the rifle. Thanks for your info so far.

 

[LaBonte]

FWIW The Henry company not only built and sold rifles they also sold barrels and locks. IMO the lock is definitely Henry, but the rifle is not - the stock style and patch box style don't appear to be of the style used by Henry.
The lock once having been flintlock, may indicate the rifle's age i.e. if the rifle was originally flint it could be older than the late 1820's/early 1830's since thousands of flint rifles were converted later in life, but then again flint locks were still being made sold into the 1870's and some places even later.

 

[Zonie]

Thanks for the link to the PDF file.

I noticed on page 16, the rifle shown in fig. 28 seems to be quite similar to the rifle in the OP's pictures.

The comb on the stock and the buttplate seem to have the same or very similar curvature.

 

[rbh350]

I got the rifle out for some better photos under better light. My bifocals seem to be working better as I missed some writing on the top of the barrel in front of the lock. I'm a bit embarrassed about that but........ In script "L.Stut**" I couldn't make out the last letter or two but got a good photo of it. I'm posting additional photos.

 

[Trench]

Well there you go! You have an L. Stut rifle with a JJ Henry lock. I really like this rifle. Hang on to her! :thumbsup:

 

[suzkat]

That is an S States rifle. Known maker

 

[Trench]

Duh, I just looked at the signature. Yeah, those are round-hand S's. What do you know about S. State?

 

[rbh350]

That is an S States rifle. Known maker

1+ can you point me in a direction to find more information on "S States" as a known gunsmith/rifle maker???

Or better yet, explain a bit here....

 

[crockett]

J.J.Henry/ PHILADELPHIA was the stamp mark used before the Bolton factory got built- if memory serves me correctly it was 1810 to 1820. I can get the exact time the stamps changed. The PHILADELPHIA marking means an early date and most likely a Flintlock converted to percussion. The Henry Family used three patch box deisgns and what you have looks nothing like any of them. That, along with the other hardware, indicate to me that what you have is a Henry Lock used on another firearm.
Although I can get you better information the best thing for you is to contact the Jacobsburg Historical Society in Bolton (Nazareth) PA and email them the photos- they could tell in an instant what you have.
The Henry Family were big time gunsmiths and supplied parts. If I recall they made the barrels for Sam Colt's revolving rifle- (Patterson Plant). They had a lot of employees making locks for the trade, etc.
Check out: http://www.jacobsburg.org/

 

[suzkat]

Sorry for the delay. I have seen several rifles for sale recently that were made by Samuel States. One at the Conestoga Auction and one at the Old Barn Auction both in the last 12 months. Samuel States was a Pennsylvania maker. I can't find alot about him but here is what I did find.
"Samuel States, deceased, was born in Bucks county,
in 1797, and was married in 1821 to Hannah, daughter
of David Smith. He was a gunsmith, a miller and a
farmer, and left a family of three children."
This is from "History of Luzerne, Lackawanna, and Wyoming counties"
Here's a little more
"Hello John I am terribly sorry for the long delay in answering your question. With the Christmas holidays followed by a few weeks in St Thomas I came back to 15 pages of questions to answer. I have owned a number of Samuel States guns over the years, the most recent was sold by me to Bob Sadler. They are quite interesting and not many exist today. I understand Lawrentz Kafka, president of the KRA, has some of the original States shop records. The rifle I sold Sadler was a great States rifle that had been nicely converted to percussion. That rifle was also pictured in an earlier ASAC article. If this is the rifle you are looking at it is a great one. Hope this info helps and sorry again for the delay."

By the way. That's one beauty of a rifle. The patchbox is unique and very well executed and the pie crust cheek inlay reminds me of Jacob Earnest rifles.