Help to ID antique flintlock

[JIM1911]

Hello everyone , I have been away from the forum for a while . I was wondering if some one could help me ID this pistol I just picked up. This is my first Photo post. I will try one picture first then more tonight if it works. Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

 

[Mike Brooks]

It's Continental European. need more pictures to be specific. The cock looks like a replacement.

 

[JIM1911]

Thanks Mike , Here are

a few more pics.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Probably German or Danish ca. 1720 or 30. The cock is definitely a later replacement from an english gun.

 

[JIM1911]

Thanks again Mike . I have spent about thirty hours in the last week on the net trying to figure out what I have. I was looking up the history of the Damascus barrels and it looks like the pattern on this is like they call french wave pattern I think (Translated from french) that also was used later by the english ? I hope it is ok to post alot of pictures because each part of the pistol has something interesting about it. I am sooo excited about owning an original flintlock pistol from that time period .

 

[JIM1911]

A couple more pics.

 

[Mike Brooks]

The barrel is possibly Persian or Turkish in origin, they were popular to import at that time. Looks like the rear ram rod pipe is a replacement too. You should PM Stophel and see what he thinks about this pistol, he's real sharp with this Continental stuff. He probably doesn't often look at this pistol board.

 

[Stophel]

Well, I would have at first said "probably Dutch" (the Dutch made zillions of pistols). It's pretty generic in form. Could be from anywhere, as far as that goes.

The "spoils of war"/panoplies of arms on the lock and all the hardware are VERY unusual. Quite odd looking. (Are those Bongo drums???) I wouldn't be surprised if the gun were North African.

 

[JIM1911]

Stophel , thanks for your replies both here and the other one . I value your opinion ,thanks so much. I guess where it came from does not matter all that much ,but would be good to know. If it could only talk I bet there would be some great tales. Hey maybe it was used by pirates or in the revolutionary war . I am very happy to now be the proud owner of this pistol. It will be a keeper for sure. Thanks again , Jim

 

[TFoley]

Well, I would have at first said "probably Dutch" (the Dutch made zillions of pistols). It's pretty generic in form. Could be from anywhere, as far as that goes.

The "spoils of war"/panoplies of arms on the lock and all the hardware are VERY unusual. Quite odd looking. (Are those Bongo drums???) I wouldn't be surprised if the gun were North African.

Sir - I would be amazed if this beautiful piece turned out to be African in any respect.

The 'bongo drum's are in fact kettle drums, carried in pairs on horseback [as seen in the Trooping of the Colour ceremony to celebrate the Queen's birthday every year here in yUK].

The stylised portraits are hauntingly familiar, and are reminiscent of the Vasa Royal family of Sweden, as is the use of the large stylised crown. The presence of a woman's portrait as well as that of a very distinctively-shaped male profile is also unusual. I'm going to do some diggin' around the coin collectors' sites here and see waht i can come up with.

But then again, I could just be jaw-flappin' here, eh?

tac

 

[JIM1911]

Hello Tac , Hey thanks for your comments. I was hoping someone would reconize the man or woman on this pistol. I have been looking at royalty from France ,Germany ,England from 1700 to 1800 . There was a french princess around 1790 of so that looked alot like her but they all start lookin like what you are looking for after 5 or 6 hours of searching . I cant find my note right now but it may be nothing . Thank for your interest in my pistol ,and your info .Let me know if you find anything on the coins . Thanks Jim

 

[Mike Brooks]

I suppose there is a chance it may be Russian too.

 

[TFoley]

Sir - in this era of Russian history they did not use any form of a crown symbol like the one portrayed on the pistol, but the double-headed Romanoff eagle, as a symbol of royalty.

On the other paw the crown looks remarkably like the Vasa crown, and the male head like that of the Swedish King Gustav III [reigned 1771 - 1792 - when he was assassinated] and his wife Sophia Magdalena of Denmark.

As ever, I'm more than happy to admit that I am mistaken.

tac

 

[JIM1911]

You might be onto something there. There is a real good likeness of King Gustove and Sophia . Too bad I'm at work on short lunch break . Can't wait till after work and do more research on this lead. :bow: Thanks again Tac

 

[Stophel]

Just something about the decoration that does not look like normal Western European stuff.

 

[jimmy82]

The crossed cannons on the lock make me think this maybe was an artillery officers pistol?!? But the only country I know that uses crossed arms for branch symbols is the U.S. But the crown rules us out, never had a king. It looks like it might have a Swedish influence. The U.S. is notorious for taking symbols from others and adapting them to our uses. Just look at our 1 dollar bill. So if someone can find another country that uses crossed arms for military branch identification then you maybe on to something.

The crown on this strikes me as very similar to the crown over the male profile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_Sweden_Lesser.svg

Especially because of the ball and cross at the top of the crown.

If I was a betting man I would say that this was at least a medium ranked officer's pistol in the Swedish artillery corps. Thinking major to colonel (or the Swedish equivalent).

Very nifty looking pistol.

 

[JIM1911]

Hello Jimmy82 ,Thanks for your info. That crown does look alot like the one one the pistol. It does have a small cross at the top. I work with a gentleman from Sweden that has been in the US for eight years. Yesterday I told him about my pistol and he thought that was awesume as he says.In school in Sweden he was taught alot about that part of there history . He thinks I shouLd contact the Gustav III's Museum of Antiquities. Thanks so much for your info . Jim