Help identifying percussion muzzleloader

[KatieVT]

I am researching some old rifles for my great-uncle. We are trying to identify a percussion muzzleloader of his and find out information about the maker.

It is a Half Stock in .40 caliber. Its barrel is octagon and there is 5/16 inch of steel surrounding the bore.

On the stock are metal inlays shaped like stars. The lockplate has an engraving of a dog & flying bird in a meadow. There is a name on the plate, but the first part is unreadable. It appears to be _____nmore.

There are no visible markings or serial numbers on the gun until the barrel is removed from the stock. On the bottom of the barrel are two stamps: Remington & HE.RESLEY.

Any information would be appreciated. I have not been able to find anything about it.

 

[Dphar]

Remington furnished a lot of barrels to gunsmiths across America for decades.
Locks were imported in large numbers from Birmingham England ready to install, engraved etc and most were stamped, either there or in the states with a wholesalers name or the name of the store they were sold from.
The second name on the barrel may be traceable and again may be a wholesaler or hardware vendor and not the maker. Makers signed the top flat in most cases.


Photos would be a great help.
Photos can be uploaded to photobucket.com and then linked to the post here.
Use a digital. Firearms as notoriously hard to photograph even with experience and a digital will tell instantly if the photo is usable.
Lock may be marked "Ashmore"
Dan

 

[KatieVT]

Pictures are here: http://smithfamilyfarmvt.com/guns/Resley/ . Hopefully, they are good enough.

My great-uncle thought that it was a 40 caliber, but we measured it tonight and it is a 44 caliber. Its barrel measures 32 inches long. It has 8 lands & 8 grooves. It has a single set trigger.

My great-uncle purchased it between 1950 and 1960. It was old when he bought it.

 

[Happydog]

It looks like a Hawken to me. I have a T/C hawkin on the wall above the computer and I was looking at your pics and mine on the wall appear very similar. Could it be another maker of a Hawkins?

 

[dyemaker]

A quick search turned up this about H.E Resley. Of course you already know about this from what I found. There are some pictures to compare furniture etc but no closeups. I liked the Hilliard rifle better.
http://tmlra.com/Archive/Muzzleblast/Muzzleblast_aug69.pdf

 

[brubincam]

-----WOW did you see the 55 cal--that weighs 141 lbs--wouldn't want to drag that sucker too far----- :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

I liked the Hilliard rifle better.

"gun" directory wide open. :wink:

 

[KatieVT]

Great! Thanks! Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we'll be able to pin down when it was made. Besides the two stamped names (Remington & HE.RESLEY) that were hidden by the stock, there are no markings of year or serial numbers.

I was planning to ask about the Hilliard next. It, too, is unmarked. We are going to unscrew the sight to see if it is marked there.

It is a 36 caliber, with a 26" long barrel. It weighs 16 pounds. It is an underhammer and looks like a Hilliard, though I haven't been able to view closeup pictures of Kendall underhammers to compare. http://smithfamilyfarmvt.com/guns/Hilliard/

I'm finding the research of these guns to be fascinating! For it to be a Vermont-made gun is even neater.

 

[dyemaker]

There were several underhammer rifle makers in New England and elsewhere but like you stated, it doe's (look) like a Hilliard rifle. If you look up the Underhammer Society blog site they have drawings comparing Kendall and Hilliard actions. An obvious difference is the hammer. Hilliard was in New Hampshire and Kendall was in Vermont.

Good luck

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have some info on Hilliard, give me some time to find it. A Hilliard is almost always marked on the top flat. But also look on the bottom flat with the ramrod removed You'll see a series of numbers and some initials that relate to loading data and the man who test fired it.

 

[KatieVT]

My great-uncle removed the sight from the Hilliard and it IS stamped. However, it is NOT a Hilliard. The name stamped on the top flat is D.M. Varney. Multiple Google searches have failed to find anything about D.M. Varney. Has anyone heard of him in connection with Underhammer muzzleloaders?

 

[KatieVT]

I believe I've located D.M. Varney!

In the Vermont Register Farmers' Almanac and Business Directory for 1871, he is listed as a "whitesmith" in Burlington City, Vermont.

In a New England Quarterly article about Burlington in 1840, the following is written: "....The village's only metal workers above the level of blacksmith are near Water Street. D.M. Varney makes guns, but also advertises as a whitesmith, gold and silver smith, die sinker, cutler maker, and machinist."

My great-uncle called up an old friend that wrote a book about Vermont Gunsmiths and asked him about D.M. Varney. He was born in St. Albans, VT, in the early 1800s, and died in 1890. He made Underhammers.

The gun is about 15 miles away from where it was made!

 

[dyemaker]

Wouldn't it be nice to find one like that and a Windsor Enfield at a local yardsale now? May be worth a look I'd say.
:hmm:

 

[Dphar]

Nice quality probably eastern percussion rifle 1850-1860? Certainly not low quality. Hard to date without some knowledge of the maker and when he worked IF the name stamped on it is the maker and not some owner.


To get a value it would have to be appraised. It is not a high value ML like the known big name makers would be. Finding the makers name, dates and locations would help. Its just a nice condition antique.

It has nothing to do with a Hawken, aside from being a 1/2 stock percussion. The TC Hawken bears almost no resemblance to the original Hawken rifles. This rifle just happens to somewhat resemble the TC in some ways as almost any 1/2 stock percussion rifle would. But its a much better quality rifle than the modern, low cost factory made rifle.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

I believe I've located D.M. Varney!

In the Vermont Register Farmers' Almanac and Business Directory for 1871, he is listed as a "whitesmith" in Burlington City, Vermont.

In a New England Quarterly article about Burlington in 1840, the following is written: "....The village's only metal workers above the level of blacksmith are near Water Street. D.M. Varney makes guns, but also advertises as a whitesmith, gold and silver smith, die sinker, cutler maker, and machinist."

My great-uncle called up an old friend that wrote a book about Vermont Gunsmiths and asked him about D.M. Varney. He was born in St. Albans, VT, in the early 1800s, and died in 1890. He made Underhammers.

The gun is about 15 miles away from where it was made!

I am surprised, as heavy as it is and as small as the bore is that its not made for a guide starter or false muzzle to use a picket bullet or slug.
Though if its later, 1870s-1880s may have used a "naked" bullet and no starter was really needed. But but prior to the Civil War if used with a bullet it should have a provision for some sort of starter. But its hard to say from where I am.
The barrel does not appear to have been shortened. But its hard to say from this distance. The rifling twist would be a clue to its use as well.
Neat gun though.

Dan

 

[musketshooter]

The barrel marking are correct for a Remington made barrel. The rifle is a "custom" one made from various parts. The lockplate is probably an ashmore. Many rifles were made of various US and foreign made parts. It looks like a fine rifle.

 

[Joe Wolf]

"Judge Resley" had a great reputation for his barrel making and built entire weapons as well. They are very collectible nowadays. I met him at the Texas State ML Championship matches in Brady, Texas when I started shooting muzzleloaders in 1976. Remington sold barrels when they first got into the business and starting making finished guns after that. I have had and sold bench guns with "Remington Cast Steel" stamped on their barrels. It might be a bit unusual for the "Judge" to make a barrel with a Remington barrel, but he certainly could have had a customer that had a barrel and wanted a rifle made using it.

Ashmore made locks in the 1820s and 30s. I have read that the Hawkens used them in some of their guns, particularly flintlocks.

 

[dyemaker]

The lock does look like an Ashmore lock. I was also looking at one for sale with a nice tiger striped Japanese maple stock and a Robbins lock.