Half stock flint?

[m-g willy]

After seeing the thread of converting a TC New Englander to flint I was wondering if there were any half stock round barrel flintlocks before 1800.
I'm looking for something with the style of a trade gun only a half stock with a rifled barrel.
What's you all thoughts on this?
The gun never existed? or were few and far between?

 

[David W.]

Most definately on the few and far between list. Most likely never. But if you want a half stock flinter and not concerned about being HC, then go for it. Anything at all will be better than on of those plastic stocked pieces of junk you find nowdays.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I doubt seriously that there were many Round barrel rifles made before the Am.Rev. It was far easier to make a barrel forging it with flats. After the Am.Rev., there began to be factories, with huge grind wheels, powered by water flowing over waterwheels, that were used to grind the metal round. But, you see this beginning in about 1780 and later, Not before 1774. The Reason we have British( English) Brown Bess barrels that are round is because the armories that produced them were set up for mass production, and could afford to have the grinders needed to round the barrels. The Armories were owned by the King, who obviously could afford to have the very latest in equipment.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I'd say yes, English sporting rifles often were half stocks with round barrels and the New Englander does bear a slight resemblance which could be improved with a bit of tinkering.
Here's my version of a T/C "trade gun" with interchangeable rifled and smoothbore barrels.

 

[bkovire]

if my mem servers me right, after doing research on an other subject, a lot of rifles were indeed round brl. and half stocked.

 

[m-g willy]

I'd say yes, English sporting rifles often were half stocks with round barrels and the New Englander does bear a slight resemblance which could be improved with a bit of tinkering.
Here's my version of a T/C "trade gun" with interchangeable rifled and smoothbore barrels.

That's the style gun I was thinking about.
What would be the time period for the gun you have pictured here?

 

[Dphar]

After seeing the thread of converting a TC New Englander to flint I was wondering if there were any half stock round barrel flintlocks before 1800.
I'm looking for something with the style of a trade gun only a half stock with a rifled barrel.
What's you all thoughts on this?
The gun never existed? or were few and far between?

This is what an 1/2 stock, shotgun buttstock, flintlock rifle circa 1800 looked like. This one is perhaps a little larger in the bore than most English guns at .67 bit its still pretty typical.

This style rifle, with one or 2 keys was common in England from the 1790s till the end of the FL.
Any 1/2 stock American guns would have been patterned after this to some extent.
Note the similarity to the 1/2 stock Hawken from the lock forward.
If you are worried about being Historically Correct then you need a completely different rifle. There are no HC factory mades. They simply cannot afford to do the correct stock shaping etc at the price they sell for.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

I'd say yes, English sporting rifles often were half stocks with round barrels and the New Englander does bear a slight resemblance which could be improved with a bit of tinkering.
Here's my version of a T/C "trade gun" with interchangeable rifled and smoothbore barrels.

That's the style gun I was thinking about.
What would be the time period for the gun you have pictured here?

I think you will look a long time to find a round barreled English 1/2 stock sporting rifle. I am sure there is one someplace but they certainly would not be common.
It seems people are so used to looking at MLs of this sort that they are beginning to think of them as correct.
Time period? From the overall design, about 1972.

Dan

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi,
A Harper's Ferry 1803 as is, or modified could fit your needs.
They are available quite affordable, and can be modified. :v
Old Ford

 

[Toomuch_36]

I doubt seriously that there were many Round barrel rifles made before the Am.Rev. It was far easier to make a barrel forging it with flats. After the Am.Rev., there began to be factories, with huge grind wheels, powered by water flowing over waterwheels, that were used to grind the metal round. But, you see this beginning in about 1780 and later, Not before 1774. The Reason we have British( English) Brown Bess barrels that are round is because the armories that produced them were set up for mass production, and could afford to have the grinders needed to round the barrels. The Armories were owned by the King, who obviously could afford to have the very latest in equipment.

Here I must disagree Paul:

Just in the very act of forging a gun barrel (whether smooth or rifled) you are starting out with a round tube. A flat bar is first forged into a trough, next the top of the trough is closed and welded together.
Which then must then be bored and, if required, rifled. Then the exterier was either finished round or filed with flats.

Toomuch
.............
Shoot Flint

 

[paulvallandigham]

To Weld a skelp by forging, the Hammer necessarily creates a flat where the to ends are joined together by the hammering under heat. You have to use a half round "fuller" to create a round surface out of a flat one. Its much easier, faster, and therefore cheaper to create a barrel with flats on it, since the top three flats are hammered to help close the joint between the two sides of the skelp. Now, whether the bottom is left round depends entirely on whether a swaging block is used, or even available. I know round barrels were made, and sold to gunmakers, beginning in the late 1800s, and Remington made a successful business making barrels for sale to gunmakers all over the Eastern half of the country in the early 19th century.

I don't know the answers to all these " If's", so I will suggest that we simply agree to disagree. What equipment appears in many "re-enacting" villages around the country often represents 19th century and even early 20th century Blacksmith tools, rather than early half of the 18th century. If I were convinced that Every Blacksmith had a swaging block, I would accept the statement that its easier to form a round barrel around a mandrill, than an octagon barrel.

 

[kentucky bucky]

There were half stock fowlers in Europe and sporters in England. As for America, never say never. I believe there were some in New England and I have heard of some Ohio rifles, but they may have started out as full stocks.

 

[Trench]

Well, this is still after 1800 but not much. It had to of been made prior to 1804. Here's a picture of William Clark's John Small rifle that he took with him on the Corps of Discovery. Looks like it started out as a flintlock.

 

[J.D.]

Just in the very act of forging a gun barrel (whether smooth or rifled) you are starting out with a round tube. A flat bar is first forged into a trough, next the top of the trough is closed and welded together.
Which then must then be bored and, if required, rifled. Then the exterier was either finished round or filed with flats.

The flats were forged in, then finished with hand tools. IMHO, and from experience, it is a
LOT harder to forge a cylindrical cross section than a square or octagonal cross section.

To summarize what has already been posted, round barreled half-stock rifles were extremely rare to non existent, prior to 1800, or so, and extremely rare, in civilian arms, after that date.

I do believe that Wm Clark's "Small rifle" carried an octagon barrel, BTW.

God bless