Half Soleing a Frizzen.

[LRB]

I am just curious as to how many of you have half soled a frizzen in the manner I will describe, and what was your level of success? I have done a small number this way, and all were very impressive sparkers. I just did my own large Siler and am extremely pleased with the results. I would consider this lock to now be a fire hazard.
I ground a piece of 1095 steel down to a tad less than 1/32". Hot formed it to the curve of the frizzen face, heated to a red-orange and quenched it warm brine. I cleaned up the back side of it and the face of the frizzen. I then tinned the frizzen face entirely with Staybrite silver bearing solder which has a low temp flow rate of I think 430°. I did not tin the sole for fear of over heating, but was very generous with the flux during this entire proceedure. I locked the frizzen in my vise by the toe and face up. Set the sole in place and applied a low flame from a common propane torch to the back of the frizzen, very slowly and carefully bringing the heat up as even as I could. As soon as I could see the solder flow at the edges I stopped. I had to give a little more heat in some areas that did not flow immediately, but no more than necessary. As soon as the solder set, a few seconds, I quenched the frizzen in water. I cleaned up the new frizzen face and file checked it. The file skated across very well leaving no marks. I could barely leave minute marks on the edges of the sole with the file edge, so it is quite hard. The lock now sparks better than ever throwing great showers of orange sparks. I will range test it on Sunday to check for any excessive wear, but do not expect any. It is my theory that the fully hardened 1095 does not give up much hardness in the soldering process because of the short amount of time the heat is applied, but that is just my guess. In my opinion this is much easier than riveting on a half sole, then having to heat treat the entire frizzen, and will certainly out last a frizzen treated with Kasenite. Any comments will be welcomed.
I was also thinking, one might try TIX solder after tempering the 1095 sole. TIX flows at 275°, but I am not sure it would have reliable strength. Anyone care to comment on that?

 

[rich pierce]

Never tried it before, but have had many a lock with a frizzen that could have been harder. I'd prefer frizzens be made of mild steel that could be pack case hardened than the cast steel which often seems to be lacking, somehow.

This method sounds quite handy. I have seen originals that were brazed; apparently the brazing temperature was above the successful hardening temperature for the quench after the union. I have seen this brazing repair on original tumblers as well.

 

[Roy]

but the rivets just look cool... :haha: :thumbsup:

I have always used rivets... The last one I used silver solder that flows at 1200 with rivets, quenched then drew back. I am not that scientific about it, but I always get good sparks when I have had to resole. As far as what type of steel I use, I honestly have no idea :haha:

 

[matt denison]

Yep, that's a good process. I think you made it sound easy compared to my experience :bow: Grinding and shaping the sole so it fits well enough for a good bond is a PITA.

My question is what is TIX solder? Never heard of it. Got any more information about it? It sounds interesting and could be useful if it really flows at 275 deg.

L.Dawg

 

[LRB]

I found it in the seventies. Dixie Gun Works carried it. It flows at 275°, has a strength of 4,300 PSI. It ain't real cheap, but does work well when you need to keep heat at a minimum. Go here and take a look. I didn't shape the sole, except to heat bend it to lay on the frizzen face. I just ground it down to a thin plate, heat bent it, hardened it, and soldered it on oversized. Then I carefully trimmed it by grinding off the excess, keeping it cooled. http://www.micromark.com/TIX-SOLDER-PKG-OF-20-3-STICKS,6707.html

 

[Vaino]

Nice process. Have a question....does the sole face that's exposed change to a straw color after soldering? The 1095 after quenching I imagine would be 63-65RC {glass hard} which wouldn't be scratched by the flint, so possibly the soldering heat does draw it down some? Have to try this on my squirrel rifle's frizzen....Thanks...Fred

 

[ebiggs1]

We used to buy 1095 shim stock and I believe it came in 1/32" and lesser thicknesses. May save you a step or two. I have some old frizzens laying around so I may try. Lords knows I've tried most ways!

 

[wulf]

Great method...It works...and that is what counts.
I have done a few but I like to expariment and my
last one [two days ago] was exactly that. On this
frizzen The heat would be a big problem as it is
two pieces slivered together..I made a shoe out of
.030 spring stock and formed it to the frizzen and
hardening it. Knowing that it wasn't going to get
too much stress I used J.B. weld to glue it on. I
wasn't worried it would work because I have glued
them on other frizzens and are still intact..like
I say, I like to expariment...Wulf

 

[LRB]

Thanks ebiggs. I will look into that. Would save a lot of time.

 

[LRB]

Fred, I harden my fire strikers and only temper the finger grips, or pin mounts if they have them. They throw great sparks, so it wouldn't really be necessary for the 1095 sole to be tempered, but just a matter of choice. Jim Chambers recommends a 375° temper, but that is likely to keep the frizzen from breaking more than for better spark. It certainly doesn't hurt if it's tempered some.

 

[matt denison]

Thanks for the link! I'll order up some and experiment with it. JB Weld has it's purposes but I don't know if soleing a frizzen is one of them :surrender:

I always temper frizzens @ 350 in a specially designated oven. I've seen too many frizzens that were so hard that flints would glide over the surface without taking any metal with them. Slightly tempering them (IMHO) allows the flint to bite and also relieves some stress for durabillity.

I recently soled a frizz. using old clock spring material. It was super easy to work with and threw a slew of sparks when finished. Problem is that it is narrow and will only work on small frizzens.

'Dog

 

[LRB]

Clock springs are reported to be 1095 steel, but I like to know for sure.

 

[Stophel]

I did one once as an experiment. I apparently didn't get the face hard enough. I soldered it on with tin solder. My first attempt, though.

I don't think I would trust TiX. It's pretty soft stuff. I use it to solder the frizzen to the pan to drill the screw hole. Melt it back off when done. It's very handy for that. :wink:

 

[LRB]

That's kinda what I was thinking about the Tix Chris, but I guess the only way to know for sure would be to try it. With the surface area of a frizzen face, it may hold well. As long as the sole I put on continues to sparks like it does now, I think I will stick with the Staybrite.

 

[Bubba45]

wick ..............where did you get the staybrite silver solder ?

 

[Stophel]

Lead melts a LITTLE bit lower than tin, so lead might do better with less risk of tempering the face down too much. I think lead flows and solders easier than tin anyway.

 

[napolean]

I did about the same process some years ago, I used a broken 6" file and ground the frizzen face pretty flat and ground the file to fit, keeping it cool the whole time. I just used a type of hobby solder from the local hardware store and it worked fine. I didn't quench afterward, but cooled it down with a wet shop rag. It did the orange, snapping, sizzling sparks.
Jon D

 

[LRB]

Chris, acually lead melts at 621°, tin at 450°. Stay Brite flows at 430°. I just looked at a chart of solder properties and 50/50 lead/
tin melts at 421°, 60/40 at 374°. Another chart gave slightly lower temps. 60/40 would be the one to find. That is about perfect. I looked it up. Sells for around $12.00 for a one pound roll. My youngest is a plumber. I will ask him to get me a roll.

 

[Stophel]

That don't sound right, but what do I know. I'd a sworn it was the other way around. :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

Strange as it may sound, by mixing some metals together the new metal will have a lower melting point than either of the metals that were mixed together.

The solders are great examples of this.

My information says the melting point of pure lead is 618 degrees F.
Pure tins melting point is 450 degrees F.

Mixed together in a 50/50 solder where it is 50 percent tin and 50 percent lead the "solidus" temperature (when the solder just starts to melt) is 361 degrees F and the "liquidus" temperature (completely fluid) is 421 degrees F.

Speaking of this "solidus" and "liquidus" temperatures of solder I'm sure you old timers remember when cars seams were coated with "lead".
Also the "Lead Sled's", which is what we out west called customizing cars by removing hood ornaments and door handles, not to mention installing louvered inserts in the hood.
We often used a solder like a 80 percent lead/20 percent tin. This stuff has a solidus melting temperature of 361 degrees F and a liquidus melting temperature of 535.
That allowed us to turn the solder into a mushy pile of metal that could be pushed around, formed and smoothed without it totally melting and running down thru the cracks. When it was smoothed, a little more heat with a torch and the surface would melt into a glass smooth fluid that if left to cool had absolutely no cracks or indications that it was there.

OK. OK! Back to muzzleloading guns.