Green River Hawken tumbler

[Pat McCoy]

Does anyone know of a possible supplier of a tumbler that would work in a Green River Hawken. I wore one out many years ago, and the replacement has just broken. Sure would like to keep this rifle functional.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Christophero]

Doc White has a website. See if he can help you as he started GRRW.

 

[Shifty]

Maybe check Don Stith and TOW,I think there may have been 2-3 different locks used.

 

[plmeek]

Depending on the serial number of your Green River Rifle Works Hawken, it likely was built with one of these locks:

Serial number

 

[MacRob46]

That's interesting information concerning the various locks used by GRRW. I have a GRRW Leman trade rifle, serial no. 504 and it has a Kern coil spring lock. Not traditional, of course, but unless you take it off the stock you cannot tell. There are internal adjustments for main spring power and trigger pull which makes it a very versatile lock.

I do wonder why GRRW used so many different locks.

 

[Shifty]

Can you post some pics of your lock outside and inside views, that lock sounds interesting to me.

 

[bpd303]

Here is the patent info on the Kern lock. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3577667.pdf

 

[plmeek]

That's interesting information concerning the various locks used by GRRW. I have a GRRW Leman trade rifle, serial no. 504 and it has a Kern coil spring lock. Not traditional, of course, but unless you take it off the stock you cannot tell. There are internal adjustments for main spring power and trigger pull which makes it a very versatile lock.

To avoid highjacking Pat McCoy's thread, I will start a new one on the locks used on GRRW's Leman Trade Rifle.

I do wonder why GRRW used so many different locks.

Necessity and aesthetics are the reasons. When GRRW started up, they found their guns were very popular. To keep up with the demand, they tried to make arrangements with the handful of lock makers at the time to supply them locks, but few would commit to the volume that GRRW needed. Eventually, GRRW had to hire their own locksmiths to assemble locks in house from parts or kits for the William Morgan lock, Long's locks, and Bud Siler locks. That way they were only dependent on the scheduling of the foundries and not the lock builder/supplier.

When Ron Long introduced his T. Gibbons pattern lock, GRRW was quick to recognize it was more appropriate for the style of Hawken they were building and switched from the Morgan lock. GRRW made similar changes as new locks came on the market that were more suitable for the different types of guns they were making.

Phil Meek

 

[plmeek]

That's interesting information concerning the various locks used by GRRW. I have a GRRW Leman trade rifle, serial no. 504 and it has a Kern coil spring lock. Not traditional, of course, but unless you take it off the stock you cannot tell. There are internal adjustments for main spring power and trigger pull which makes it a very versatile lock.

Can you post some pics of your lock outside and inside views, that lock sounds interesting to me.

I've added a post on the Leman Trade Rifle showing the various locks GRRW used and a view of the outside and inside of Bob Kern's coil spring lock here.

GRRW Leman Trade Rifle

 

[Pat McCoy]

Thanks to all for the help. I contacted Doc white a few years ago, and while he was a delight to talk to, he could not help on parts.

My lock looks like the first Ron Long lock shown, but Dave at TOW was unable to come up with anything close to matching from his supply.

I'll try contacting RE Davis.

 

[plmeek]

I think Dave at TOTW was being overly cautious and didn't want to sell you a part that might not work. You are taking a chance by trying to find a tumbler for such an old lock, but if you really want to get it working again, you need to take that chance.

The tumbler I was referring to from TOTW is part #LOCK-JB-R-TU which fits what they call their Jim Bridger Hawken lock. Their price is $23.50. I would go ahead and order a fly detent with the tumbler to make sure it fits the tumbler properly. That is part #LOCK-JB-R-FL and costs $10.59.

If you order from R.E. Davis, tell them you want a tumbler and fly detent for their Hawken Percussion Lock, item #0211. Ask for one that is all ready hardened and tempered.

Once you get the tumbler, if it doesn't drop right in and fit ok, then you will have to find a gunsmith with experience working on muzzleloaders locks to make it fit.

By "fit ok", I mean the axle on the tumbler that fits in the hole in the lock plate has to be small enough to fit the hole, but not so small that it wobbles or has slop. Also, the thickness of the tumbler needs to be close to the inside height of the bridle. You want to be able to tighten the screws holding the bridle on the lock plate without binding the tumbler. But you don't want too much of a gap between the bridle, tumbler, and lock plate.

I'm a little concerned as to why you have gone through two tumblers on that lock. Other than breaking the half cock notch, a tumbler shouldn't wear out or break unless they weren't hardened and tempered correctly or they were put through some severe stress or abuse. What do think caused the wear and breakage?

 

[Pat McCoy]

I suspect the 10,000 rounds or so fired between 1972 and the late 80's did in the first one. It still looks good except for the wear of the full cock notch.

I'm not sure about the second tumbler, as it worked fine until bottom half simply broke off. Perhaps a failure in hardening by the local gunsmith, although I never heard of any of his other guns having problems. Not near as many rounds fired with this tumble, as after the mid 80's this was no longer the only rifle I owned.

Business growth allowed me to get into other types of rifle shooting, and I finally finished building a flintlock rifle (which I shot enough to have to eventually bush the frizzen pivot so it wouldn't hang on the side of the barrel when opening.

I no longer shoot much ML, but want to keep the guns I have in good working order. The new game is smallbore schuetzen (with 1885 Winchester), and am getting a yen for a centerfire for the full sized game. Might just run out of the holy black yet. Sure different buying it at today's prices than the less than $2/pd (keg minimum) in 70's.