Good vs Bad Sprue Shooting Test: Lee Mold

[pwbsmokey]

Two five - shot groups are not really enough to draw any conclusions from.

Five, five - shot groups with each load, maybe.

Try seating the balls with the bad sprues with the sprues down.

Bet they shoot better.

Sam Fadala did testing and came to the conclusion that damage to the front of the ball affected accuracy less than damage to the rear. He recommends loading sprue up, that way you are consistent in knowing exactly where the sprue is. For what it's worth, your results may vary.

 

[Rifleman1776]

For those of you using Lee molds, have you experienced anything like this...the bridging issue, problems getting the cavity to fill properly unless you're running the lead very hot, etc.?

Yes. At first. And, I'm certain many others have also. BUT, that was at the beginning of the learning curve with Lee moulds. Your problem was not with the lead not hot enough. It was with the mould not being hot enough. Crank back down to about 650-700 degrees, make sure your mould is hot then cast. A few bad pours usually will heat the mould properly, or just dip it into the lead pot until the lead doesn't stick anymore.

 

[fraungie]

I am no expert either but I do have about 15 Lee aluminum molds and have been casting for about 25 years. The molds range in size from .350 to .575. My first .575 balls looked like yours and about 50% were bad and went back into the pot. The larger the caliber the harder it seems to cast. That big hole cools down quickly and takes more lead to fill. I always clean out the cavity of a new mold with alchohol and a q-tip. Then I smoke the mold using a candle and soot up both sides of the mold and cavity. Then I lube the indexing pins and the sprue plate pivot.These molds even though they are aluminum need broken in. I place the corner of the mold into the molten lead and hold it there for at least 45 seconds before casting. You have to get these large cavity molds and multi cavity molds hot. My third casting session with the .575 mold proved very successful. I only had a very small percentage come out bad. You do have to wait and let the sprue harden as others have said. If not the spru plate will tear rather than cut the sprue. This will leave gouges in the ball instead of a nice smooth flat spot. I love my Lee molds and have had a lot of success with them once broken in. Good luck I hope this helps.

 

[mooman76]

I actually think it's easier to cast with a large cavity mould. More lead helps heat it up and keep it hot. All moulds are different and the temperature needs to be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Khufu]

I have been casting since the mid 70's, I have lee and Lyman and RCBS molds. I do prefer the steel molds, that said, I get decent balls from the lee aluminum molds. one thing I have not seen mentioned here is fluxing the pot and smoking the molds. when I was a youngster an old timer showed me the ropes, and man did that make a difference. I toss a small pinch of alox or bullet lube, beeswax works as well and that floats the impurities, and makes the lead cast cleaner. as the flux burns off I hold open the heated mold and let the smoke coat the mold. the result is balls drop out super easy and are near perfect every time once I have a hundred or 2 I put them in a ball mill and roll them over night. in the AM I add some water and dawn detergent and roll them another hour, then drain and rinse. the result is a perfect sprueless ball as round as swaged. the steel molds are better for high production but the lee molds are fine till they over heat, and a few minutes of cooling and they are good to go. the lee 00 buck mold casts 9 at a time and are connected 3 together after cutting them apart the ball mill removes all the defects.

 

[Rifleman1776]

ball mill

Wassa ball mill? :idunno:

 

[coloradoclyde]

A horizontal rotary tumbler filled with balls...Intended for polishing or pulverizing...depending on what you put in it.

In the aforementioned case, he is simply letting the lead balls roll against each other, smoothing rounding and polishing their own surfaces.

 

[Khufu]

Colorado Clyde is correct.

this is my small ball mill I got it at Harbor Freight, it was very inexpensive. I have a bigger one that I bought years ago when I was making BP and supplying all my buddies with round balls. since lead is so soft it rolls up into perfect balls, works great on homemade lead shot as well.

 

[Boomerang]

Do you think a tumbler used for polishing brass cases would work for balls?

 

[Khufu]

not a vibratory tumbler, The rolling of the balls against each other is what rounds them, the ball mill pictured is only about $30 a lot cheaper than a turbo tumbler from Lyman. fluxing the pot and smoking the molds will insure they fill out cleanly stopping the air bubbles at the sprue area. The Ball Mill will move the soft lead where the sprue area is and round it perfectly

 

[Boomerang]

Does it make the balls any smaller?

 

[necchi]

Do you think a tumbler used for polishing brass cases would work for balls?

I use a Thumler's Tumbler R-6 and tried it with 40-50 ball for about an hour and it did darn little. I could have run it much longer I guess, but I've found that simply loading sprue forward is all that's needed.
There's no rocket science involved. If folks load sprue forward every time the rifle and load will shoot better then most of the guy's pulling the trigger.

 

[Khufu]

it does not change the diameter it simply rounds them perfectly so there is no sprue, and no need to try to find the sprue to point forward specially in low light, just grab a ball and load it just like a Hornady swaged ball. all the ball mill does is roll a lot of balls together and smooth and round the surface, it removes any mold seam and sprue. mine are all the same diameter as when they went in

 

[Khufu]

depending on the diameter of the drum, you need at least 1 - 2 hundred balls the drum should be half full, and it takes over night, like 10+ hours, then another hour of 2 with water and dawn.

 

[necchi]

you need at least 1 - 2 hundred balls the drum should be half full, and it takes over night, like 10+ hours, then another hour of 2 with water and dawn.

Thanks for the info,, I kinda figured it'd take a long time.
The R6 is a smaller rotary tumbler so it would be over loaded.
Like I said,, the entire effort ain't worth it.
Just load sprue forward and there no problem with accuracy. None.

 

[Rifleman1776]

1/2 inch hole in the sprue plate ?????? Surely that is a misprint. Did you mean that you used a 1/2 inch bit to enlarge the hole? How big was the actual hole in the sprue plate when you finished enlarging it?

Did you not see my winky?

1/2"

Actually, 5/32" on a .600" rb mould I will probably never use again.

:wink:

 

[smoothshooter]

I think what he was calling a ball mill is what is more commonly called a tumbler.( case tumbler )

 

[Billnpatti]

Rifleman said:
Did you not see my winky?

Pssssst!!! Put your winkie up. There may be ladies present. :rotf:

 

[Billnpatti]

You have gotten some excellent information on how to resolve the problem with your casting. Let me recommend something to you that will improve your accuracy with the balls that you cast, or any balls for that matter. Check this out. I highly recommend it. It is worth far more than Dutch charges:
www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

 

[Spikebuck]

Let me recommend something to you that will improve your accuracy with the balls that you cast

Bought it from Dutch a couple of years ago. Yes, lots of good stuff in there and using his approach I've shot some pretty amazing groups at the range...though as a hunter first, I can't say I'm a big fan of the "dry patch" in the field. I'm not too interested in wiping between every shot out there.

The group pictures were not perfectly worked up loads. They were the first shot with a ball size that ended up to be dissimilar to the ones I purchased from ToTW and previously worked with. As mentioned, clearly too loose a fit and needed more work. Would have been pretty deadly on big game critters though! 2.25" at 75 metres tisn't all that bad. :v