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Gold vent liner - coned

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WRussell

45 Cal.
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Here's a gold vent liner that's been opened up inside - essentially coned - so all but the last 1/16 inch or so is about 1/4 inch diameter.

Seems like the gold wouldn't last long. Has anyone else seen one like this?

This is on a Wogdon pistol, and I'm wondering if it's another of his "tricks" like his bent barrels.

I'll post a shot of the pistol on the pistol page.

DSC06267crop.jpg
 
Trick bent barrels? Tell more...

Are you sure it isn't brass? Gold does seem awfully soft to me...
 
Gold was commonly used on the upscale pieces. It's shiny inside the hole where it's unlikely anyone polished it lately - I'd say it's gold.

Wogdon had quite a reputation as a duelling pistol maker, and his "trick" barrel was bent down in the last few inches so the ball exited on a line that was parallel to the sight line. He swamped the barrels (quite a bit) so when inletted into a full stock it was impossible to see that the barrel was bent without removing it from the stock.

The reason for the bent barrel was that the sight line on a typical barrel of the day - thick at the breech and thin at the muzzle - would intersect the path of the ball at only one point. (Unless you had a very tall front sight, and duelling pistols were meant as snap shooters anyway - you didn't really use the sights so the top of the barrel was your guide.)

With the bent barrel the sight line was a set distance above the path of the ball throughout the flat part of the trajectory. Probably this made a difference in the shooting parlors, where most duelling pistols were used, to impress everyone and get the word out that you were too dangerous to challenge to a duel.

Later makers, like the Mantons, used a barrel that was the same diameter thoughout, so the top of the barrel was automatically parallel to the ball path. This gave the additional advantage of mass out at the muzzle, which reduced the effect of recoil on your aim.

As far as I know, Wogdon was the only one to use a bent barrel (he made his own barrels, by the way, which was very unusual).
 
Good Morning Pork Chop,

WRussell's post is 100 % correct. A gold vent liner was supposed to last a lifetime plus.

For what it is worth, I will be using my first platinum lined percussion nipples at the TMLRA CHAMPIONSHIPS this next week. Those too are supposed to last a lifetime.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.
 
Pork Chop said:
Trick bent barrels? Tell more...

Are you sure it isn't brass? Gold does seem awfully soft to me...

John beat me to it but he is absolutely correct.
Yes gold and platinum are soft metals, but are very crosion resistant. Most fine dueling pistols of the day were made this way for this reason.

Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint
 
I thought the reason the gold liners were used was because it transmits heat so fast, that it aids in making ignition of the main powder charge quicker.

As long as there is a touch hole drilled through the liner, I don't see any amount of chamber pressure blowing these " soft " liners out of the gun. Then, again, maybe that comment about the liners lasting a life time only was taking into account the possibly short life of a duelist! Since dueling pistols were not shot often, they could expect to have a long life.

Many years ago, I believe it was Homer Dangler that tried gold plating a liner, and then gold plating the pan of his flintlock, and even painting a gold arrow on the barrel leading from the floor of the pan to the touch hole to see if it would speed ignition. I don't think he had access to the high speed equipment then, so he could not tell any difference. The gold plate eventually was burned or knocked off, and didn't seem to last. This is a lot different than a liner made of any gold or gold alloy.
 
If I could find my gosh durned borelight I'd have a look :redface:

Here's some broken bits by Egg, the bit bottom centre is the remains of the platinum liner and it's not exactly thick.

Unfortunately someone else tried to fix it before I arrived :shocked2:

platinum.jpg
 
Gold liners are quite common on higher grage english guns, both fowlers and pistols and rifles too. They aren't threaded in either, but riveted instead. :shocked2:
Gold was used because it is resistant to wear and corrosion. Same goes for platinum, it becoming in "vogue" around 1806 or so, and replacing gold in use as a vent liner from about this time on.
 
Mike Brooks said:
Gold liners are quite common on higher grage english guns, both fowlers and pistols and rifles too. They aren't threaded in either, but riveted instead. :shocked2:
Gold was used because it is resistant to wear and corrosion. Same goes for platinum, it becoming in "vogue" around 1806 or so, and replacing gold in use as a vent liner from about this time on.

Thanks Mike, you have just answered another question that came to mind. The stainless liners we have today are hard enough to hold their threads under breach pressure, but the gold would not be. I had always assumed they were poured in place then the hole drilled. Since this example is coned on the inside I was wondering how this was done. Riveting them in answers this question.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint
 
Gold and Platinum are both highly resistant to any form of chemical attack which makes them excellent choices for vent liners.

They also have high melting points with pure gold around 1944 degrees F and pure Platinum at 3223 degrees F.

Both have very high thermal conductivities which allows them to conduct the heat of the powder flash away from the actual vent hole. This lowers the temperature of the surface rapidly so any melting that might occure will be very shallow.

From a strength standpoint, Gold has a tensile strength of 12,000 to 30,000 PSI while Platinum is 11,000 to 26,000 PSI depending on the composition of the alloy.
Although these values are low compaired with steel, with the proper design and alloying the liners should be well within their allowed stresses.
 
I too have been wondering how they were secured. My understanding is that the hole in the barrel had a groove (ring) cut in it just below the surface, and the liner bottomed on a shoulder at or below that, so one could hammer the liner in, expanding it into the groove.

What say you, Robin? Since you're the only one I've heard of actually having one on the loose to look at.
 
Mike Brooks said:
They aren't threaded in either, but riveted instead. :shocked2:

Wow...just wow..... It's didn't surprise me one but that Robin had a gold liner but the platinum one was a bit of a surprise, you have the coolest stuff.
 
So I hope all of you Flintlock guys wives didn't mind you pounding your wedding rings into the shape of a little vent liners and pounding them into your rifles barrel.
It's not like Gold was selling for over $700/ounce and a man has to have all the advantages he can get. Right?? :rotf:
 
That reminds of the story that the guy I apprenticed to told, that while he was an apprentice at Williamsburg they all melted their class rings to make gold touch hole liners.

Regards, Dave
 
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