Goex vs. Swiss?

[opusnight]

I'm curious: is Swiss worth the extra money, vs using Goex powder? Seems like a lot more to spend, but if it's worth it... is ignition time improved, or what's the reason?

 

[necchi]

There are several things going on with the Swiss vrs Others powder debate.
It use be less $$ than it is now, usually more than other powders,, but the spread wasn't as much as it is now.

Is it worth it?
You do use less,
It's faster burning,
The fouling is different,

If your into the fine details, and your truely after the best Target Accuracy from your rifle,
I believe, it's worth the extra cost.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/272570/

 

[Rifleman1776]

Goex is fine powder, no doubt. It is sorta the standard by which all others are judged. You can't go wrong.
OTOH, Swiss is considered higher grade and 'hotter'. By different accounts, it will give equavilent performance with loads reduced 15% to 25%.
Cost per pound is higher but cost of use is about the same.
Swiss burns cleaner and leaves less fouling.
I have a supply but haven't used much yet. My supply of Goex has recently been used up. I am now working through my Schutzen (Goex wasn't available locally for a couple years), when that is gone I'll be using Swiss exclusively.
What Swiss I have used has been in testing in my wife's .40 cal. rifle. Her previous charges of 40-50 grains Goex 3Fg dropped to 25 gr. of Swiss 3Fg.
That is just one experience. FWIW.

 

[pchwcf50110]

i personally don't think so, and @ Graf's last week Swiss was $9 per # higher than Goex and $10 per # over Schuetzen. i have some very accurate target rifles and i don't see much difference in pure accuracy. velocity, yes. Currently i have Goex, Schuetzen, and Swiss in different granulations. My .72 Kodiak likes Swiss best while my .69 Sporting rifle prefers Goex and my Parker Hale .451" Whitworth/Volunteer will shoot anything accurately.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Personally, I like GOEX, though I have some Diamondback as well right now. I like the European imports too. If I was shooting rapid fire competitions where accuracy and speed of reloading coupled with lowest possible fouling was needed, then yes I'd use Swiss..., otherwise, since I don't do speed competitions any longer, I will keep using GOEX for one simple reason..., it's made in America, and the fluctuation of the dollar doesn't effect its price too much, plus future importation problems (you never know eh?) means we might see a time when GOEX is all one can get..., but if they are out of business from lack of customers, then we may be in real trouble. So if I find a different powder that I like a lot better than GOEX, I will still buy a couple of pounds of their product a year.

LD

 

[Dave Marsh]

+1 :thumbsup:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Swiss was $9 per # higher than Goex and $10 per # over Schuetzen

I'll admit, that is quite a bit of money. Only use and testing (e$pen$ive) can determine if the difference is worthwhile.
I used to buy my powder twice a year at big shoots we have here in Arkansas. I would always but at least two pounds more than I estimated I needed for the next 12 months. Doing that twice a year I built up a nice supply, most when prices were lower.
We lost our supplier and I am happy I thought ahead. Kinda bragging, I guess, but I won't be worrying about powder supplies or prices for several years.
Still like Swiss though. :grin:

 

[Bob J]

The 42" swamped Green Mountain barrel on my flintlock (.54) did not group well with Swiss 1.5 f or 2f. I tried it with various charges on two different occasions. This rifle is a tack-driver with Goex 2f or 3f. Was the Swiss clean burning? Definitely! But it just will not group well in this particular rifle.

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Just something one has to try and keep after I suppose.

Greg

 

[Bob J]

Actually, I decided Goex works so well I'll stay with Goex. May try the Swiss in my next muzzleloader :hmm: - we'll see...

 

[ebiggs1]

To some people it may offer some small advantage but it doesn't for me. Why spend more than you need to? :hmm:
It is no different than the subs. Pyrodex does exactly what is is supposed to for me. So why buy the higher cost alternatives? They offer no improvement. :td:
As to Swiss equaling out in the shot per can, I doubt it. :hmm:
Stick with GOEX and/pr Pyrodex. :thumbsup:

 

[fyrfyter43]

Swiss is a fine powder, but the benefits just don't justify paying the higher price.

Right now it is more than twice the price of the Graf's powder I ordered a few weeks back. Graf's is $12 per pound. Swiss is $25. (Both prices are without shipping or hazmat charges.) My somewhat limited experience with the Graf's powder is that it is about the same as Goex. Slightly larger kernels, but fouling is about the same, and accuracy seemed to be very slightly better.

 

[Rifleman1776]

No argument there. In this game, do wat works for you.
My best friend uses some really El Cheapo, floor sweepings powder and beats most of us at the club every month.
So, defining wat is "best" is only fodder for more posts here. :wink:

 

[Bretwalda]

I use Swiss in my .32 exclusively for all of the positive reasons stated above :wink: . In my 16ga or larger fowlers I also like to use 7gr. of 1.5F Swiss as a starter charge in the bore followed by 50-90 grains of 1f Shultzen powder for the "main charge". I find that this dual powder load give more reliable ignition, consistent patterns and the cleaner burning Swiss at the bottom of the powder charge keeps the bore much, much cleaner than if I shoot the courser powder alone.

Overall I don't use that much Swiss powder under these applications, but I do find it is a very, very high quality product and I will gladly pay the price for it, as I feel it is worth it to me. :hatsoff:

 

[jamesthomas]

I found a new can of 3fff Swiss the other day when I was checking my powder supply. Went shooting today. At 75 yards I shot a 3 inch group, 5 shots 3 of them touching,60 grns. It took 70 grns of 3fff KIK powder to shoot an inch higher. The Swiss was cleaner shooting. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow. I would buy swiss but they have priced it out of my range. The Swiss shots were to the left of aiming point( found out my rear sight had been knocked out of line).

 

[Billnpatti]

It burns a little hotter and somewhat cleaner but not enough to warrant the extra cost. Goex shoots better than I can so why mess with a good thing?

 

[Walks with fire]

I bought some Swiss 2f; I didn't care for it and neither did my rifles. I also got some Null-B at the same time; I love the stuff.

Goex 2f and 3f is all I shoot now even though I have some Swiss left. I will shoot it up for fun shooting but when I want the best accuracy from my rifles; they like Goex.

 

[Bill Hall]

Think of Swiss as the super premium at the gas station, and Goex as the regular gas. Both fuels will get you where you're going, each will get you to 75 mph, and each performs close to the same as long as you push a little harder on the gas pedal with the regular. Same thing with Swiss and Goex. You can accomplish the same thing with Goex by just adding a little extra powder, and maybe cleaning a little more often.

I love shooting Swiss, and I also love putting the high octane gas in my jeep, just don't want to pay for doing it as a lifestyle when it's not necessary. If Goex wasn't as consistent from lot to lot as it is, paying more for Swiss might be warrented. Then again, if Swiss lowered their price, Goex would be considered "junk", and could go out of business overnight. Funny how that works. Bill

 

[necchi]

Good analogy, I'll have ta try an remember that one, :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

Personally, I like GOEX, though I have some Diamondback as well right now. I like the European imports too. If I was shooting rapid fire competitions where accuracy and speed of reloading coupled with lowest possible fouling was needed, then yes I'd use Swiss..., otherwise, since I don't do speed competitions any longer, I will keep using GOEX for one simple reason..., it's made in America, and the fluctuation of the dollar doesn't effect its price too much, plus future importation problems (you never know eh?) means we might see a time when GOEX is all one can get..., but if they are out of business from lack of customers, then we may be in real trouble. So if I find a different powder that I like a lot better than GOEX, I will still buy a couple of pounds of their product a year.

LD

The Military is GOEX's bread and butter.
They charge the US more for fuse/booster powder than we pay for "propellant powder" if my source is correct and I am sure he is. The military MUST have a BP supplier or import it and then recalibrate their "specification" to meet the supplier or force them to make Goex. S o while Goex might quit selling powder to sportsmen, but they will not stop making powder.

Dan