GM Barrel nipple threads

[mykeal]

You're right on, roundball. I am also disappointed with Green Mountain. I've considered buying their barrels for restoration projects and making over a percussion rifle to a flintlock. I'm seriously reconsidering that idea. There are other barrel makers out there.

Saying that an M6X0.75 metric thread is 'close' to an SAE 1/4X28 thread is simply nonsense. While the diameters are not greatly different, the thread pitch is just nowhere near the same, and the fact that you can get the nipple started doesn't change that. It's wrong. I think they've confused the 1/4x28 coarse thread with 1/4x32 fine thread. Those certainly are not interchangable and neither are M6X0.75 and 1/4x28.

 

[Mad Professor]

AT THE VERY LEAST, they should have contacted vendors/buyers and made them aware of the problem. There is nothing on their website I can see, not even the previous recall notice for defective nipple threads.

What is going to happen to a newbie, unaware of the problem, who loves shooting.

He cleans his gun after each use, and removes the bad nipple over and over until one the threads are not up to the task any more. Then you have a preventable tragedy. :bull: :youcrazy: :shake:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I hate to be the one to suggest this, but with the company being so arrogant about a consumer complaint, I think its time that one of the people with this barrel and nipple problem, contact the Attorney General for the State where GM is locatged, and file a Consumer Fraud complaint against the company. The company will have to explain to the Attorney General why its responding to consumers about this problem the way they are. And, they will have to try to explain why it is they think that a smaller nipple with a different thread count is suppose to work in that barrel.

The answer if for GM to replace the nipples with ones that fit the barrel. Now, if that is a coil in the bolster, and that is also a cause of concern, that should also be brought to the attention of the AG.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission has been ( correctly) deprived of regulating firearms. However, this does not amount to a blanket protection for arrogant managers to snub their noses at customers, and sell defective products.

If someone is hurt because one of these nipples fails, the amount of money in damages against GM will be astronomical. The current management should be fired, frankly, because they could not make a worse decision for their company than what they are doing now. With the internet so readily available to get out a " recall " message to customers, and dealers, a tragedy could be so easily diverted NOW.

 

[awp101]

I just got an email reply from Rick Sanborn at GM:


"...Bill, The issue with the nipples is correct, there's no recall because the metric nipple is very close to the 1/4".

If anybody has an issue we'll fix it but so far everything we pulled from stock has either had the correct nipple or if metric, was pulled and replaced without damage after inspection.

We certainly don't want to make folks mad at us or anything but the truth is that there's nothing really wrong with the barrels..."

Thanks
Rick

Sooo, are they saying what they have in stock is now correct?

 

[roundball]

I just got an email reply from Rick Sanborn at GM:


"...Bill, The issue with the nipples is correct, there's no recall because the metric nipple is very close to the 1/4".

If anybody has an issue we'll fix it but so far everything we pulled from stock has either had the correct nipple or if metric, was pulled and replaced without damage after inspection.

We certainly don't want to make folks mad at us or anything but the truth is that there's nothing really wrong with the barrels..."

Thanks
Rick

Sooo, are they saying what they have in stock is now correct?

I take it to mean that they put the correct 1/4" x 28 tpi nipples in and "they fit the metric threaded seat good enough" in their opinion without damaging the threaded seat...I wouldn't have one.

The good news:
He seems to suggest that if you have one and are dissatisfied with it, they'll make it right.

The bad news:
Given their track record during the past 3 years, "making it right" will probably mean an oversized drilling out of the existing seat, then screwing in a helicoil, then screwing a nipple into the helicoil.

Wouldn't have one of those either.

 

[awp101]

I was planning on getting a TC Hawken and getting the .32 and .45 barrels...eh, I may hold off on that plan. :shocked2:

 

[roundball]

Odds are the problem is limited to one run of calibers.

But you should ask them via email (writing) if you can get a .45cal drop-in barrel with NONE of the thread problems...and NO helicoil...just a normal, 100% correct 1/4" c 28 tpi threaded seat.

 

[awp101]

The bad news:
Given their track record during the past 3 years, "making it right" will probably mean an oversized drilling out of the existing seat, then screwing in a helicoil, then screwing a nipple into the helicoil.

Wouldn't have one of those either.

I'll admit I've been gone a while and haven't followed anything on this. What's the problem with a heli-coil if done properly? Or are those last three words the key/problem? :hmm:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

The bad news:
Given their track record during the past 3 years, "making it right" will probably mean an oversized drilling out of the existing seat, then screwing in a helicoil, then screwing a nipple into the helicoil.

Wouldn't have one of those either.

I'll admit I've been gone a while and haven't followed anything on this. What's the problem with a heli-coil if done properly? Or are those last three words the key/problem? :hmm:

Last 3 words. I mean, If they cant even screw in the proper nipple, i darn sure would worry about their helicoil quick fix on a new barrel :surrender:

 

[roundball]

I'll admit I've been gone a while and haven't followed anything on this. What's the problem with a heli-coil if done properly? Or are those last three words the key/problem? :hmm:

It can be best summed up this way...two dealers, Cains Outdoor in West VA, and Tip Curtis in Tenn, both good sized dealers who carry GM barrels, returned shipments of new barrels to GM when they learned they had helicoil repairs in them...refused to sell them to customers.

 

[awp101]

Ah, got it! Thanks!

 

[Ken Rummer]

I think a heli-coil repair would result in a stronger thread than just screwing a 1/4-28 nipple into a damaged hole. However the heli-coil must be "properly installed" which was a problem with earlier GM fixes.

 

[Mad Professor]

Has GM even offered to supply you with the correct nipple?

 

[Ken Rummer]

I have not had any contact with GM. I returned the barrel to the seller for a refund.

 

[Kelhammer]

I have been a professional Tood and Die maker for 15 years and this story here has dumbfounded me. No way I would want one. I can not believe GM's response to this. If the wrong size thread was forced in these barrels, the threads are damaged, end of story. You do not want damaged threads holding in your nipple, that is a no brainer. No amount of "spin" is going to change that. Customer saftey has just been thrown out the window :cursing: As for helicoiling for a repair. Again, not on my gun. If I installed the helicoil myself, and shot some sort of proof load thru it, maybe. Also if the Helicoil was poorly installed, and just passed along... Well you only had one shot at putting in the helicoil, if your barrell already has one in it you have no future options for repair. Best case situation, I'm still going to think about it, every time I touch her off. Its a shame a guy would have to worry about such things. Poor management like this, in such a well known company can not be good for muzzleloading in general. They are really leaving the door open here for a law suit, and they will deserve it.

 

[ryoung14]

Sad. The IBS barrels were a good idea and a good product. That's not enough anymore. There's gotta be a commitment to maintain quality for the long run. Apparently that's missing at Green Mountain and a great many other American companies. Likely sacrificed in favor of the bottom line and some MBA's reputation for "holding the line".

It is a sorry state of affairs when good ideas can no longer be of any help :shake: