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Original 1863 Springfield Questions

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We have an original M1863 Springfield rifle musket that was "sporterized" after the war. The forend was shortened to a half-stock with only one band remaining, the barrel was reamed smooth, and the original sights were removed and a simple bead sight was installed. Most of them had a single, crude ramrod pipe affixed to the underside of the barrel. This was done to thousands of these old guns to make them more appealing to the post-war civilian market and they are not particularly valuable.

This particular gun belonged to a family friend when I was a child. He was a good man. This gun had been in his family for several generations. It was not functional, but my dad fixed it up to shoot in the early sixties. He tuned the lock and may have replaced the mainspring. He also fabricated and installed a replacement for the missing ramrod ferrule, and for some reason welded up the nipple seat and redrilled and tapped it for a .250"x 28 sporting nipple. I know our friend had it and shot it after my Dad fixed it up, but he eventually succumbed to lung cancer and his family kind of went to pieces after his death. His property was dispersed.

It's a long story and I don't think I even know all of it, but the upshot is this gun stood in the corner of a barn for the last 50+ years and no attention was paid to it. I now have it, although I'm not sure at this point who its rightful owner is. I'm in the process of cleaning and conserving it. Since I know people will ask, I did check to make sure it was unloaded, and I'm only killing and cleaning off live rust, without removing the patina. The nipple is frozen in place and the breech is soaking in kerosene until I can get to it and try the nipple again. I don't think the barrel will be "shootable" after all is said and done, though, due to extensive corrosion. However, after a good cleaning and lubrication, the lock works better than most of the new production locks you see these days, and ticks as smoothly as a Swiss watch when it is cocked. The trigger is light and crisp. Externally, the stock looks as if it was beaten with a log chain, and it also has a few age cracks, but it is structurally pretty solid. I've started rubbing in some linseed oil, which the wood seems to appreciate. With a new barrel, this gun would be a shooter with some real character.

My question is about the internal lock screws for the bridle, sear, and sear spring. Only one head is slightly buggered, and it isn't bad. They didn't want to turn at first, but I got the screws out after soaking the lock in kerosene for three days. The threads are not terrible, but they ought to be cleaned up or "chased." However, I don't have a tap or die to fit them. They are a non-standard thread, and don't fit any of the threaded holes in my Brownells Screw Checker. A thread pitch gauge appears to show 26 TPI, and the diameter seems to be closest to a #10. However, they don't fit in the unthreaded #10 hole in the Screw Checker, and they are not as big as a #12. The side nails are #12-24 (and in surprisingly good shape), but I need to know the size of the internal lock screws so I can get an appropriate tap and die for cleaning up the threads. I'll also need to find the tap and die. My usual source for tools for weird threads (Victor Machinery) does not list a #10 or #12 tap in 26 TPI. I suppose these screws might be metric, but I didn't think that would be likely. I think they are probably closest to a #10-26, but wanted to see if any of you fellows know for sure what size these screws are supposed to be.

Thanks!

Notchy Bob
 
Last edited:
We have an original M1863 Springfield rifle musket that was "sporterized" after the war. The forend was shortened to a half-stock with only one band remaining, the barrel was reamed smooth, and the original sights were removed and a simple bead sight was installed. Most of them had a single, crude ramrod pipe affixed to the underside of the barrel. This was done to thousands of these old guns to make them more appealing to the post-war civilian market and they are not particularly valuable.

This particular gun belonged to a family friend when I was a child. He was a good man. This gun had been in his family for several generations. It was not functional, but my dad fixed it up to shoot in the early sixties. He tuned the lock and may have replaced the mainspring. He also fabricated and installed a replacement for the missing ramrod ferrule, and for some reason welded up the nipple seat and redrilled and tapped it for a .250"x 28 sporting nipple. I know our friend had it and shot it after my Dad fixed it up, but he eventually succumbed to lung cancer and his family kind of went to pieces after his death. His property was dispersed.

It's a long story and I don't think I even know all of it, but the upshot is this gun stood in the corner of a barn for the last 50+ years and no attention was paid to it. I now have it, although I'm not sure at this point who its rightful owner is. I'm in the process of cleaning and conserving it. Since I know people will ask, I did check to make sure it was unloaded, and I'm only killing and cleaning off live rust, without removing the patina. The nipple is frozen in place and the breech is soaking in kerosene until I can get to it and try the nipple again. I don't think the barrel will be "shootable" after all is said and done, though, due to extensive corrosion. However, after a good cleaning and lubrication, the lock works better than most of the new production locks you see these days, as smoothly as a Swiss watch. The trigger is light and crisp. Externally, the stock looks as if it was beaten with a log chain, and it does have a few age cracks, but it is structurally pretty solid. I've started rubbing in some linseed oil, which the wood seems to appreciate. With a new barrel, this gun would be a shooter with some real character.

My question is about the internal lock screws for the bridle, sear, and sear spring. Only one head is slightly buggered, and it isn't bad. I got the screws out after soaking the lock in kerosene for three days. The threads are not terrible, but they ought to be cleaned up or "chased." However, I don't have a tap or die to fit them. They are a non-standard thread, and don't fit any of the threaded holes in my Brownells Screw Checker. A thread pitch gauge appears to show 26 TPI, and the diameter seems to be closest to a #10. However, they don't fit in the unthreaded #10 hole in the Screw Checker, and they are not as big as a #12. The side nails are #12-24 (and in surprisingly good shape), but I need to know the size of the internal lock screws so I can get an appropriate tap and die for cleaning up the threads. I'll also need to find the tap and die. My usual source for tools for weird threads (Victor Machinery) does not list a #10 or #12 tap in 26 TPI. I suppose these screws might be metric, but I didn't think that would be likely. I think they are probably closest to a #10-26, but wanted to see if any of you fellows know for sure what size these screws are supposed to be.

Thanks!

Notchy Bob

Hi Bob,

Sorry, but have bad news for you. Though hundreds of thousands of threaded holes and screws were made in that size, it didn't make it into modern day available taps and dies sizes. I know because between 1974 and 2005, I tried to get them from all sorts of modern day makers and tool suppliers.

You CAN get a custom tap and die made in that size, but even with all the work I used to do on those locks, it wasn't economically feasible.

HOWEVER and believe it or not, there are still quite a few places you can get original BRAND NEW/Old Stock Screws, since they must have made a bazillion of the them during the UnCivil War. Also, repro screws in that size are also readily available.

Products (ssfirearms.com)

and

M1863/64 Springfield (lodgewood.com)

Gus
 
Thanks, Gus

I thought a properly sized tap and die might clean the threads up a little better, both on the screws and the lock plate, but the original screws are functional and I'll probably end up just keeping them. I brushed them as clean as I could with a small wire brush, and greased them well before reassembling the lock. They don't wiggle, and the lock is working well, so I'm probably better off just leaving it at that.

Do you know if they are in fact size 10x26? I'm still interested in knowing.

Much obliged,

Notchy Bob
 
No they are not #10. A correct tap and die were available just a very few years back but I'm unable to find them now. They may have been a very limited production item. I seem to remember it was S&S Firearms but I'm not sure. They weren't cheap, about $40 each as I recall.
 
Thanks, Gus

I thought a properly sized tap and die might clean the threads up a little better, both on the screws and the lock plate, but the original screws are functional and I'll probably end up just keeping them. I brushed them as clean as I could with a small wire brush, and greased them well before reassembling the lock. They don't wiggle, and the lock is working well, so I'm probably better off just leaving it at that.

Do you know if they are in fact size 10x26? I'm still interested in knowing.

Much obliged,

Notchy Bob

As Hawkeye 2 mentioned, no they weren't size 10, but I think a fractional size as I recall without going deep into my notes.

Gus
 
No they are not #10. A correct tap and die were available just a very few years back but I'm unable to find them now. They may have been a very limited production item. I seem to remember it was S&S Firearms but I'm not sure. They weren't cheap, about $40 each as I recall.

I'm having a senior moment, but perhaps Richard Cross?

Gus
 
The listing was considerably after his passing. I wish someone would step up and take his place. there are no reproduction parts today to equal his which were as good as or better than originals.
 
I've reassembled the lock at this point so don't have one of the screws handy to check, but I'll bet Gus is right about the fractional size, likely 3/16". The 26 TPI pitch gauge was a perfect match for the threads.

I'll check Victor Machinery again for fractional size taps. I also browsed and searched S&S and found a tap for "Springfield and Trapdoor Lockplates" for (I think) $22.50, but they did not state the size or pitch.

I appreciate all of the responses.

Notchy Bob
 
The tap at S&S should be correct as the threads on the trapdoors and percussion guns were the same. I couldn't find it on S&S's site could you provide a link? I wish I could find the listing for a die also.
 
We have an original M1863 Springfield rifle musket that was "sporterized" after the war. The forend was shortened to a half-stock with only one band remaining, the barrel was reamed smooth, and the original sights were removed and a simple bead sight was installed. Most of them had a single, crude ramrod pipe affixed to the underside of the barrel. This was done to thousands of these old guns to make them more appealing to the post-war civilian market and they are not particularly valuable.

This particular gun belonged to a family friend when I was a child. He was a good man. This gun had been in his family for several generations. It was not functional, but my dad fixed it up to shoot in the early sixties. He tuned the lock and may have replaced the mainspring. He also fabricated and installed a replacement for the missing ramrod ferrule, and for some reason welded up the nipple seat and redrilled and tapped it for a .250"x 28 sporting nipple. I know our friend had it and shot it after my Dad fixed it up, but he eventually succumbed to lung cancer and his family kind of went to pieces after his death. His property was dispersed.

It's a long story and I don't think I even know all of it, but the upshot is this gun stood in the corner of a barn for the last 50+ years and no attention was paid to it. I now have it, although I'm not sure at this point who its rightful owner is. I'm in the process of cleaning and conserving it. Since I know people will ask, I did check to make sure it was unloaded, and I'm only killing and cleaning off live rust, without removing the patina. The nipple is frozen in place and the breech is soaking in kerosene until I can get to it and try the nipple again. I don't think the barrel will be "shootable" after all is said and done, though, due to extensive corrosion. However, after a good cleaning and lubrication, the lock works better than most of the new production locks you see these days, and ticks as smoothly as a Swiss watch when it is cocked. The trigger is light and crisp. Externally, the stock looks as if it was beaten with a log chain, and it also has a few age cracks, but it is structurally pretty solid. I've started rubbing in some linseed oil, which the wood seems to appreciate. With a new barrel, this gun would be a shooter with some real character.

My question is about the internal lock screws for the bridle, sear, and sear spring. Only one head is slightly buggered, and it isn't bad. They didn't want to turn at first, but I got the screws out after soaking the lock in kerosene for three days. The threads are not terrible, but they ought to be cleaned up or "chased." However, I don't have a tap or die to fit them. They are a non-standard thread, and don't fit any of the threaded holes in my Brownells Screw Checker. A thread pitch gauge appears to show 26 TPI, and the diameter seems to be closest to a #10. However, they don't fit in the unthreaded #10 hole in the Screw Checker, and they are not as big as a #12. The side nails are #12-24 (and in surprisingly good shape), but I need to know the size of the internal lock screws so I can get an appropriate tap and die for cleaning up the threads. I'll also need to find the tap and die. My usual source for tools for weird threads (Victor Machinery) does not list a #10 or #12 tap in 26 TPI. I suppose these screws might be metric, but I didn't think that would be likely. I think they are probably closest to a #10-26, but wanted to see if any of you fellows know for sure what size these screws are supposed to be.

Thanks!

Notchy Bob
I don't know myself, but the N-NSA guys would! S&S Firearms is also a dealer in such parts. Good luck!
 
The tap at S&S should be correct as the threads on the trapdoors and percussion guns were the same. I couldn't find it on S&S's site could you provide a link? I wish I could find the listing for a die also.
@hawkeye2 , here is a link to the tap I found on the S&S Firearms website: Musket and Trapdoor Lockplate Tap

This is their Part Number SA183. I didn't find a corresponding die for the screws, but the screw threads are not that hard to clean up. The threaded holes in the lock plate could stand to be chased with a proper tap, though. As noted above, the side nails are of a different diameter and thread pitch than the internal lock screws. I assume this tap is for the internal screws, but will probably contact S&S to verify this first if I decide to order one.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
Your description of your "sporterized" Springfield is exactly what my 58 cal Harrington & Richardson Springfield Stalker from 1973 looks like. Always thought it was a copy of a modified Springfield done for the civilian market, but never actually saw a gun like yours to confirm it. They have a wonderful feel & balance while being light weight.
 
Your description of your "sporterized" Springfield is exactly what my 58 cal Harrington & Richardson Springfield Stalker from 1973 looks like. Always thought it was a copy of a modified Springfield done for the civilian market, but never actually saw a gun like yours to confirm it. They have a wonderful feel & balance while being light weight.
Thank you for your comments. Regretfully, I don't have any photos of the gun I'm working on. I should have taken some "before and after pictures," but didn't. I did a quick search online, and found this photo of a Model 1861 that was given exactly the same treatment as the 1863 I have:

2021-11-12.png


I agree, these cut-down muskets are actually very nice utility guns. They are sturdy and nimble, and I'm sure they put a lot of meat in the pot back in the day.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
I have a hunch that the Bannermans catalog of 1903 will show the cut down 1863 for sale. My buddy has the reprint and I saw my 1878 Swiss was also sold as a cut down sporter in there. I'll check with him tonight.
Wayne
 
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