General Black Powder Shooting Stupidity

[griffiga]

A shooting friend of mine and myself were talking the other day about some of the stupid things we had done over the years when it came to shooting muzzle loaders. Even though we may not want to admit it, I think we have all did something that drew an after thought of, "that was stupid," or " I won't do that again." Even though I have several, I'll start it off with one of my first ones. My Junior year in High School found me becoming interested in muzzle loading and black powder. My math teacher at the time brought in for show and tell an under hammer .45 rifle. That was back when you could walk into a school with a gun and nobody cared and the principal wanted to check it out, or even went out to his car to get his for comparison. I ended up buying a Dixie Kentucky rifle kit to which I was proud of having put together. After shooting one afternoon, I proceeded to clean it. I either had too large a patch, or it was a bit too dry because it became stuck. I took it out to my dad's shop and clamped the end of the ramrod sticking out of the barrel in the vise and gave the gun a good hard jerk. The rod came out, but not the cleaning tip or the patch. The process of removing a ball when seated with no powder consisted of removing the nipple, working a small amount of powder inside, then making sure the projectile was down all the way. That much I understood, so I figured removing the stuck jag and cleaning patch would be the same. I worked some powder inside, then worried it wasn't enough, worked a bit more then replaced the nipple. I didn't want to loose the tip so I figured I could shoot it into my dad's horse watering trough, which was full of water, which would capture it when it came out. Well, the gun went boom alright and the jag and patch not only hit the water, but went clean through the trough and into the neighbor's field beyond. Needless to say, I lost the jag and got a good jawing from my father, something to the effect of having Manure for brains!

 

[smo]

Been there , done that....
Except it was one of the Wife’s flower pots instead of a water trough.

 

[springfield art]

A shooting friend of mine and myself were talking the other day about some of the stupid things we had done over the years when it came to shooting muzzle loaders. Even though we may not want to admit it, I think we have all did something that drew an after thought of, "that was stupid," or " I won't do that again." Even though I have several, I'll start it off with one of my first ones. My Junior year in High School found me becoming interested in muzzle loading and black powder. My math teacher at the time brought in for show and tell an under hammer .45 rifle. That was back when you could walk into a school with a gun and nobody cared and the principal wanted to check it out, or even went out to his car to get his for comparison. I ended up buying a Dixie Kentucky rifle kit to which I was proud of having put together. After shooting one afternoon, I proceeded to clean it. I either had too large a patch, or it was a bit too dry because it became stuck. I took it out to my dad's shop and clamped the end of the ramrod sticking out of the barrel in the vise and gave the gun a good hard jerk. The rod came out, but not the cleaning tip or the patch. The process of removing a ball when seated with no powder consisted of removing the nipple, working a small amount of powder inside, then making sure the projectile was down all the way. That much I understood, so I figured removing the stuck jag and cleaning patch would be the same. I worked some powder inside, then worried it wasn't enough, worked a bit more then replaced the nipple. I didn't want to loose the tip so I figured I could shoot it into my dad's horse watering trough, which was full of water, which would capture it when it came out. Well, the gun went boom alright and the jag and patch not only hit the water, but went clean through the trough and into the neighbor's field beyond. Needless to say, I lost the jag and got a good jawing from my father, something to the effect of having Manure for brains!

Yeah, I recall from about 1962 an early re-enactor walking casually thru the halls of our local high school with a Springfield musket for some show-n-tell! Imagine the swat team response nowadays!

 

[Woody Morgan]

When I was very young, my father came up with an old flintlock .69 caliber single shot pistol. After he departed the family, mom used it for many years to hold down sewing patterns for cutting. Fast forward to me at 16 years old.

I got curious about this old relic and discovered that the lock still worked and even had a chunk of flint in it. I came up with some BP from an older friend and experimented out in the front yard with blanks shooting really cool smoke rings out into the neighborhood and my buddy Shaky Larry came over. We were hanging out in my room and eyeballing a bowl of shot sitting on my desk from some earlier unrelated "experiments" and got the idea that it might work in the old pistol. I already had some homemade cardboard wads from shooting blanks so we loaded up the gun with a TLAR amount of powder (that looks about right), a wad, some shot, another wad and headed out to the back yard.

I asked Shaky Larry which way we should shoot it and he said "aim it at the back fence" that was about thirty feet away. I primed the pan, closed the frizzen, pulled the lock back and took aim. When I pulled the trigger the world came to an end. There was a huge BOOM and I wound up on my back under the swing set with the pistol somewhere behind me and Larry was busy putting out the peach fuzz fire on his face as he had been standing just to my right during the apocalypse. When the smoke cleared we found a four foot pattern in the fence and mom was yelling at us to "take that nonsense out to the desert!" or something to that effect.

It's taken fifty years to get back to using black powder since then.

wm

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm going to call my experience naive rather than stupid.

It was back in the dark ages (my hair was dark red) and the only way I could get a pistol was to get a black powder revolver. I had selected a Navy Arms Reb revolver. It was the least expensive production being marketed at the time and it was the same caliber as my great grandfather's Colt police revolver. The store sold me some 2fg Dupont black powder and #11 caps and a bag of buckshot that was approximately bore sized. I was given the instruction to use Crisco over the buckshot to lubricate the bore and keep the fouling soft. I think I had read some black powder info at that time in "Guns" magazine. By that time I had the Dixie Gun Works catalog and had read all the information in the back of the catalog. So off to my uncle's farm to give it a go.

Those misshapen buckshot more or less fit in the cylinder and I had at least the ability to reject the ones that were too small. I don't think I had one cylinder that didn't have at least one chain fire. Crisco was splattered over all part of the revolver. The smoke clouds generated by firing that pistol were unlike anything I ever shot before. Naturally I shot several cylinders full before I called it quits and decided I needed a real properly cast and fit ball. I ordered a 36 caliber ball mold from Dixie. A top quality Lyman mold with the handles. Imagine my dismay to discover that the mold diameter was 0.350 and my fit was worse than before.

My father the Tool Maker stepped in at that time and gave me a lesson on having the proper measuring tools and we did the measuring to see what I was dealing with here. The mouth of the chamber was 0.375". That meant that even the Lyman 0.375" mold would be too small. Dixie had recommended the 0.375" ball. I think I found a box of Speer 0.375" balls. They loaded real easy. If I fired one, usually four would fall out of the cylinder leaving only the one one behind the loading lever more or less in place. I didn't have all the chain fires at least. The chain fire problem was solved by the 0.380" mold and a set of AMPCO nipples. And I now have a 36 caliber rifle that uses the 0.350" ball.

 

[springfield art]

I'm going to call my experience naive rather than stupid.

It was back in the dark ages (my hair was dark red) and the only way I could get a pistol was to get a black powder revolver. I had selected a Navy Arms Reb revolver. It was the least expensive production being marketed at the time and it was the same caliber as my great grandfather's Colt police revolver. The store sold me some 2fg Dupont black powder and #11 caps and a bag of buckshot that was approximately bore sized. I was given the instruction to use Crisco over the buckshot to lubricate the bore and keep the fouling soft. I think I had read some black powder info at that time in "Guns" magazine. By that time I had the Dixie Gun Works catalog and had read all the information in the back of the catalog. So off to my uncle's farm to give it a go.

Those misshapen buckshot more or less fit in the cylinder and I had at least the ability to reject the ones that were too small. I don't think I had one cylinder that didn't have at least one chain fire. Crisco was splattered over all part of the revolver. The smoke clouds generated by firing that pistol were unlike anything I ever shot before. Naturally I shot several cylinders full before I called it quits and decided I needed a real properly cast and fit ball. I ordered a 36 caliber ball mold from Dixie. A top quality Lyman mold with the handles. Imagine my dismay to discover that the mold diameter was 0.350 and my fit was worse than before.

My father the Tool Maker stepped in at that time and gave me a lesson on having the proper measuring tools and we did the measuring to see what I was dealing with here. The mouth of the chamber was 0.375". That meant that even the Lyman 0.375" mold would be too small. Dixie had recommended the 0.375" ball. I think I found a box of Speer 0.375" balls. They loaded real easy. If I fired one, usually four would fall out of the cylinder leaving only the one one behind the loading lever more or less in place. I didn't have all the chain fires at least. The chain fire problem was solved by the 0.380" mold and a set of AMPCO nipples. And I now have a 36 caliber rifle that uses the 0.350" ball.

We've all gone over a learning curve!

 

[rafterob]

Shot my Brother's .69 Tower pistol at a piece of plywood leaned up against a boulder. That ball hit the plywood like a trampoline and went wizzing right past my head by a few inches. That would have hurt!
My Son's most stupid moment. We were on a woodswalk and he had not shot my muzzleloader for a year. He was loaded and apparently fully cocked. He was kneeling on the ground with the rifle at a 45 degree angle up in the air and he asked "which trigger do I pull?" I said the front trigger, which he promptly pulled. Shot that ball over the hill somewhere.

 

[griffiga]

We've all gone over a learning curve!

I think for me, that curve was really L-O-N-G. While at a local shoot, I wasn't doing particularly well and got into a conversation with the shooter next to me while loading. When I pulled the trigger, the gun went off and it kicked like hell. Thinking I had double loaded, I proceeded to load again only to find what was left of my ramrod went through the target sideways. Shooting that day was over for me. Another time while casting round balls for my .44 Remington revolver, I decided I would cool the ingot mold by rinsing it in water (bad idea). When the next pour of hot lead struck a small bit of water that was left in the corner, it blew up and spattered me with molten burn. Fortunately, I was wearing eye protection and gloves, but where it struck my shirt and pants burned holes and left some blisters on my skin. Those two examples were from my early years of muzzle loading and hopefully, I've learned a thing or two since then.

 

[Nazgul58]

Shot my Charleville repro pistol at a target tacked to an oak tree. The ball came straight back into my forehead. Knocked the daylights out of me for a few minutes.

Don

 

[tenngun]

Drilled my first touchhole for a liner. Got the right tap but wrong drill size. It fit in pretty loose. It had a cone in the inside portion and I thought perfect, first shot will set it like a minnie ball.
It was a .54 and I shot moderate chargers and it held while I got it sighted in. 70 grain 3f charges.
Thinking big chargers made the guns extra powerful I wanted to see how it would do with a 140 grain charge. I shot for a group of five shots.
It shot well till the forth. Luckily no one was standing on my right. It blew my lock about 1/8 of an inch, left a little grove in the pan and mark on the bottom of the frizzen., learned my lesson about using the right drill bits and taps.

 

[smo]

Always tighten a nipple prior too shooting....
Finger tight won’t hold up in some cases....
That makes for a dangerous situation, blows the hammer back to full cock and who knows where the nipple ends up..
Hopefully not in your head!

I’ve been told this is possible...

 

[griffiga]

My older brother picked up an old flintlock contract musket while I lived with him going to school. It had been fired so much that the touch hole was enlarged. It was to the point that when you loaded it and seated the charge, it primed the pan. I'd shot it a few time with just powder and wadding without much mishap so we decided to use a round ball. Well, the extra pressure created by the heavy lead ball shot a stream of fire out the touch hole like no other. It actually singed the hair off my arm in a streak. Good thing he wasn't standing close by. Needless to say, we retired it to the wall over the fireplace. Another time I picked up a replica naval cannon in .69 caliber. Not knowing exactly how much powder to put in it, I started with about 15 or 20 grains. When it went off, the ball just bounced across the road. We lived on the outskirts of town and the only thing beyond was a farmers field. So on the next shot I bumped it up to about 50 grains. I went off with a boom and flipped the cannon over on it's top. The .680 round ball flew across the farmers field striking his sprinkler pipe motor with a loud clang. Thinking we were going to be arrested or something, my brother and I ran for the house. Later the next day we sneaked over to access the damage only to find a 4 inch spattering of lead on the sprocket with no other damage. Whew, that was a close one.

 

[S.Kenton]

My buddy brought his new rifle over to my new house back about 2003 to site it in for deer season. My new house had a lot of stuff in the yard sticking out of the yard and just plain all over the yard. Anyhow, he and I had been shooting his new unmentionable black powder rifle with his fancy new aluminum ram rod and somewhere somehow during the session we started talking about my rifle... which was an traditions penn. rifle, during his enquisitivness ( not a word.. I know) he loaded his rifle, he squeezed off a round, I was spotting for him with my binoculars and noted that he didn’t even hit the target. My buddy and I had already worked up a good load, and He scoffed and said... “ no way I missed” and after hitting the bull at 125 yards consistently I was in agreement. We started walking towards the target and on the way I noticed a rope like object sticking out of the yard, I thought “ man I gotta get this stupid yard cleaned up” well anyhow we made it to the target and sure enough he missed completely. He was a little perplexed at the thought, and said “ welp let’s try it again” so away we went back to the loading area, he started loading his rifle and all of a sudden exclaimed” oh manure.. I lost my ramrod”... I smerked and said “ well guess what? I found it!!!” I walked out To the yard and pulled the mangled ram rod out of the soil, it was buried a good 6 to 8 inches into the dirt and had bowed into the shape of a “ u” ... it was an honest mistake and we both laughed about it...

 

[Flintlock]

I'm going to call my experience naive rather than stupid.

It was back in the dark ages (my hair was dark red) and the only way I could get a pistol was to get a black powder revolver. I had selected a Navy Arms Reb revolver. It was the least expensive production being marketed at the time and it was the same caliber as my great grandfather's Colt police revolver. The store sold me some 2fg Dupont black powder and #11 caps and a bag of buckshot that was approximately bore sized. I was given the instruction to use Crisco over the buckshot to lubricate the bore and keep the fouling soft. I think I had read some black powder info at that time in "Guns" magazine. By that time I had the Dixie Gun Works catalog and had read all the information in the back of the catalog. So off to my uncle's farm to give it a go.

Those misshapen buckshot more or less fit in the cylinder and I had at least the ability to reject the ones that were too small. I don't think I had one cylinder that didn't have at least one chain fire. Crisco was splattered over all part of the revolver. The smoke clouds generated by firing that pistol were unlike anything I ever shot before. Naturally I shot several cylinders full before I called it quits and decided I needed a real properly cast and fit ball. I ordered a 36 caliber ball mold from Dixie. A top quality Lyman mold with the handles. Imagine my dismay to discover that the mold diameter was 0.350 and my fit was worse than before.

My father the Tool Maker stepped in at that time and gave me a lesson on having the proper measuring tools and we did the measuring to see what I was dealing with here. The mouth of the chamber was 0.375". That meant that even the Lyman 0.375" mold would be too small. Dixie had recommended the 0.375" ball. I think I found a box of Speer 0.375" balls. They loaded real easy. If I fired one, usually four would fall out of the cylinder leaving only the one one behind the loading lever more or less in place. I didn't have all the chain fires at least. The chain fire problem was solved by the 0.380" mold and a set of AMPCO nipples. And I now have a 36 caliber rifle that uses the 0.350" ball.

I remember those too, trying to find a ball that wouldn't drop back out of the cylinder, seems I remember giving each ball a light tap with a hammer so they would shave a bit.

 

[PathfinderNC]

My very first Rev War re-enactmant was the Battle of Monmouth (NJ), back in the 80's. The unit I had just joined wasn't participating so I mustered in with another unit (Americans).
They were doing something I had never done before nor was instructed on how to perform the action which was "Fire and Advance" (Probably made-up). We primed and loaded (no ramming), took aim, fired, advanced about five quick steps and re-primed and loaded....
My musket was sparking and flashing as we advanced in tight formation. Billows of smoke hid one's muzzle blast from the next. The cacophony of massed musketry was electrifying and mystical to a new recruit. Then there was a halt called and we all took the moment to wipe pans and prick vents. Then we were ordered to prime and load once more.
The order was given: Company, Make Ready, Aim, Fire!"
My Bess let out a "boom" that made Mott's Artillery jealous and the force kicked me back probably ten feet! I remember coming to from the concussion and immediately feeling the breech of the gun and relieved it wasn't ruptured (but the wrist broke clean through).
Yep, all those Priming and Loading was great, but my firelock wasn't firing, just loading... probably ten blanks (600 grains of FF) finally let loose.
The only good thing about this was that it was cause for me to re-stock my Bess into a nifty Committee style musket, and retell the account in less sober company.
Moral of the story: picks are our friends.

 

[Rum River]

Neighbor had a T/C Hawken with which he was having ignition problems. He asked my advice. I told him my cleaning/shooting regimen for an identical rifle and that I had no ignition problems.

He said: "Well, I clean too so that can't be it." I suggested he just give it a try. "Yeah, but I already told you I clean." Okay then, have fun. Apparently your rifle is working perfectly after all.

He asked a different black powder guy for advice. That guy convinced him he should allow said different black powder guy to drill and tap for a musket cap nipple 'cuz "That's really the only way to fix this right." Now every time he fires a load it sets the hammer to full cock.

Neighbor came back to me and asked my advice on how to repair his now semi-automatic muzzle loader. My response of "you can't know how little I care" seemed to cause some distress.

 

[Hawken]

Neighbor had a T/C Hawken with which he was having ignition problems. He asked my advice ...

He said: "Yeah, but I already told you I clean ..."

He asked a different black powder guy for advice. That guy convinced him he should ...

Neighbor came back to me and asked my advice ...

Etc.

Have seen this same phenomenon across different hobbies or subjects or whatever. Sometimes apparently folks like this are referred to as "Askholes". It's a type of character where the same question is asked over and over, sometimes phrased slightly different, but designed to elicit a specific desired answer. When they get answers they don't like, they want to argue, and keep "shopping" around for other opinions until they get the answer they like, or maybe comports to what they figure was the answer in the first place.

Conclusion first, then try and bend, hammer and twist the facts around till they almost fit. Very common for some reason.

 

[Treestalker]

Yeah, I recall from about 1962 an early re-enactor walking casually thru the halls of our local high school with a Springfield musket for some show-n-tell! Imagine the swat team response nowadays!

In Mrs. Payne's 5th grade class (about 1966) a gentleman showed up with a rolling cart loaded down with civil war guns (repro) and gear, for a show and tell. I was big for my age so he handed me a Springfield musket, and that did it. I was ruined for life. Yes, such artifacts should be studiously kept away from gullible young children, lest they waste away their life and savings to the neglect of family and community obligation, winding up in that forlorn state of benighted black powder fascination, a sad picture indeed!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Even recently, about 5 years ago, our company artillery officer would go to schools with his canons and have a firing demonstration.

 

[Rod Man]

Late Seventies we would drop our shotguns off at the principals on our way to class so we could all go hunting after class.