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frizzen
- Thread starter poordevil
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Before you start modifying the frizzen spring, I'd look at some lube points. Make sure the pivot screw is clean and lubed. A drop of oil on the top surface of the spring will help the frizzen cam slide also. If that don't do it, a bit of polishing of that surface will help too.
Emet Huntsman
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Are you getting a good spark? In addition to the aforesaid, make sure you hammer spring is imparting enough force to kick the frizzen back. If you are getting poor sparks the hammer spring may not be strong enough or there is something binding it.
First off, what brand of lock is it? Some locks won't tolerate a short flint which doesn't kick the frizzen past the toggle point. If the frizzen spring is too weak, the frizzen might be rebounding. Of course the frizzen should be checked for any binding due to screw tension or binding on the side of the bbl. The frizzen pivot screw and frizzen hole should be well lubed. You can check the toggle point by just slowly rotating the frizzen until it pops over {note this position} then install a flint and slowly slide down the frizzen face until the flint is at the bottom of the frizzen and the frizzen should have popped open...if not, compare the 2 positions. I've had to grind a small "hump" on the frizzen spring at the toggle point denoted by the position of the frizzen toe on a couple of locks so they would toggle over and also be more tolerant of shorter flints.Good luck....Fred
You asked how important is it?
I guess that depends on how well your gun is working now. If your getting dependable ignition then don't worry about it. If your getting 'iffie' ignition, the more powder that is exposed to the sparks the better the chances that the priming will light.
As the others have mentioned, if the feather spring is too weak it isn't uncommon for the frizzen to fully open and the bounce back and come to rest on top of the flint or cock.
Try flehto's suggestion to determine if the frizzen is opening all the way.
If it reaches the "pop open" position before the flint has reached the bottom of the frizzen face chances are that it is fully opening and then bouncing back.
That would mean that at some point in the cycle it is fully open so the priming will be getting all of the sparks that are made. If the position it comes to rest in doesn't block the vent hole there is nothing to worry about or to improve.
I guess that depends on how well your gun is working now. If your getting dependable ignition then don't worry about it. If your getting 'iffie' ignition, the more powder that is exposed to the sparks the better the chances that the priming will light.
As the others have mentioned, if the feather spring is too weak it isn't uncommon for the frizzen to fully open and the bounce back and come to rest on top of the flint or cock.
Try flehto's suggestion to determine if the frizzen is opening all the way.
If it reaches the "pop open" position before the flint has reached the bottom of the frizzen face chances are that it is fully opening and then bouncing back.
That would mean that at some point in the cycle it is fully open so the priming will be getting all of the sparks that are made. If the position it comes to rest in doesn't block the vent hole there is nothing to worry about or to improve.
Or, the side of the frizzen or pan cover might be rubbing on the side flat of the barrel. Try loosening the lock bolt/screws about 1/4 turn and then see if the frizzen opens all the way and stays open. Another test is to take the lock out of the gun and let the flint strike the frizzen while holding the lock in your hands. The only difference there might be from being mounted in the gun is that the barrel isn't there for the fizzen to rub against. Tell us if the frizzen opens and stays fully opened when the lock is out of the gun.
paulvallandigham
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You want the frizzen to POP open fully, when the flint is about 1/3 of the distance from the bottom of the face of the flint, so that the frizzen gets OUT OF THE WAY of the SPARKS so that the sparks are THROWN down into the flash pan.
That is how important it is.
You want the flint to strike about 2/3 UP from the bottom, at a 60 degree angle, so that the flint scrapes steel- not gouging steel from the face.
Oil the pivot pin and screw for the frizzen. Make sure no part of the frizzen is rubbing against the lock plate or bridle. There should be NO burrs or casting seams showing on the edge of the frizzen in the bridle.
Polish BOTH the CAM, from the bottom of the frizzen, AND the contact surface on the top of the upper arm of the frizzen, where the cam rubs as it opens and closes. OIL that spot, after its polished.
Check your frizzen frequently to see that it moves freely.
THE DESIGN OF THE FRIZZEN SPRING IS IMPORTANT. On WAY too may springs, the upper arm continues to rise up beyond the contact point on the arm for the cam. THIS CREATES A SITUATION WHERE THE SPRING MUST BE COMPRESSED BEFORE THE FRIZZEN CAN OPEN.
This is wrong.
You need less than 1/2 lb. of tension on the frizzen to get it to spark well. In fact, target shooters using Flintlocks often simply remove the frizzen spring altogether from the lock, letting just the weight of the frizzen provide the "tension" or "resistance" to the flint when the tumbler is released. Testing a lock without the Frizzen Spring in the lock is still a good test to determine if the frizzen is hard enough, and move freely enough for a fast action.
If your lock requires the frizzen spring be compressed by the cam before the frizzen open, you can "cure" or " fix" the problem a couple of ways.
1. Reduce the length, or "height" of the cam, using emery stones, until the cam NO longer moves the upper arm down to open; or
2. Use a half round, or round file, or dremel tool sanding disc to create a small "DISH" or "pot hole" immediately behind the contact point on the upper arm, where the cam rests when the frizzen is CLOSED. You are creating a "curb" or " cliff" for the cam to sit on, so that when your flint strikes the face of the frizzen, the FIRST movement of the cam is to swing out over AIR, allowing the frizzen to "POP OPEN", before the came can make contact with the upper arm again.
The dish or POTHOLE needs to be only about 1/4-1/3 the thickness of the upper arm at the point of contact, so you are Not damaging the spring Nor affecting its working functions at all. Always POLISH or file, or sand, the spring along the longitudinal axis- never across it. That means, with a round or half-round file, that a rotating motion that goes along the length of the spring is the way to cut the dish. If you hold the file in both hands, with the spring mounted in a vise, you simply twist your wrists back and forth to remove steel from the spring arm. Always remove and file marks by sanding and polishing the arm with fine grits of emery cloth, or polishing discs on your dremel tool. You want NO gouges from tool marks, and instead hope to finish the steel so you can see a reflection. The smoother it is, the less friction you put on contacting parts as they move.
In the MEMBER RESOURCES section on the Index Page of this forum, go down to " Articles, Charts, and Links" and click on to articles. You will find an article there on Shooting and Tuning Flintlocks which will help you through this work. Its all polishing work- nothing like filing a new lock plate or barrel. Any idiot can do the work, if he takes his time. The author certainly succeeded at tuning his locks, and has since tuned many other locks for others. :shocked2: :rotf: :idunno: :hmm: :thumbsup:
That is how important it is.
You want the flint to strike about 2/3 UP from the bottom, at a 60 degree angle, so that the flint scrapes steel- not gouging steel from the face.
Oil the pivot pin and screw for the frizzen. Make sure no part of the frizzen is rubbing against the lock plate or bridle. There should be NO burrs or casting seams showing on the edge of the frizzen in the bridle.
Polish BOTH the CAM, from the bottom of the frizzen, AND the contact surface on the top of the upper arm of the frizzen, where the cam rubs as it opens and closes. OIL that spot, after its polished.
Check your frizzen frequently to see that it moves freely.
THE DESIGN OF THE FRIZZEN SPRING IS IMPORTANT. On WAY too may springs, the upper arm continues to rise up beyond the contact point on the arm for the cam. THIS CREATES A SITUATION WHERE THE SPRING MUST BE COMPRESSED BEFORE THE FRIZZEN CAN OPEN.
This is wrong.
You need less than 1/2 lb. of tension on the frizzen to get it to spark well. In fact, target shooters using Flintlocks often simply remove the frizzen spring altogether from the lock, letting just the weight of the frizzen provide the "tension" or "resistance" to the flint when the tumbler is released. Testing a lock without the Frizzen Spring in the lock is still a good test to determine if the frizzen is hard enough, and move freely enough for a fast action.
If your lock requires the frizzen spring be compressed by the cam before the frizzen open, you can "cure" or " fix" the problem a couple of ways.
1. Reduce the length, or "height" of the cam, using emery stones, until the cam NO longer moves the upper arm down to open; or
2. Use a half round, or round file, or dremel tool sanding disc to create a small "DISH" or "pot hole" immediately behind the contact point on the upper arm, where the cam rests when the frizzen is CLOSED. You are creating a "curb" or " cliff" for the cam to sit on, so that when your flint strikes the face of the frizzen, the FIRST movement of the cam is to swing out over AIR, allowing the frizzen to "POP OPEN", before the came can make contact with the upper arm again.
The dish or POTHOLE needs to be only about 1/4-1/3 the thickness of the upper arm at the point of contact, so you are Not damaging the spring Nor affecting its working functions at all. Always POLISH or file, or sand, the spring along the longitudinal axis- never across it. That means, with a round or half-round file, that a rotating motion that goes along the length of the spring is the way to cut the dish. If you hold the file in both hands, with the spring mounted in a vise, you simply twist your wrists back and forth to remove steel from the spring arm. Always remove and file marks by sanding and polishing the arm with fine grits of emery cloth, or polishing discs on your dremel tool. You want NO gouges from tool marks, and instead hope to finish the steel so you can see a reflection. The smoother it is, the less friction you put on contacting parts as they move.
In the MEMBER RESOURCES section on the Index Page of this forum, go down to " Articles, Charts, and Links" and click on to articles. You will find an article there on Shooting and Tuning Flintlocks which will help you through this work. Its all polishing work- nothing like filing a new lock plate or barrel. Any idiot can do the work, if he takes his time. The author certainly succeeded at tuning his locks, and has since tuned many other locks for others. :shocked2: :rotf: :idunno: :hmm: :thumbsup:
Guest
I've had this problem also. I've had to re-shape the cam on the bottom of the frizzen to get it to open all the way. Also, a longer flint will help.
However, with all that being said, if it goes off every time, it really doesn't matter if the frizzen goes all the way back or not. Ignition is the most important thing.
However, with all that being said, if it goes off every time, it really doesn't matter if the frizzen goes all the way back or not. Ignition is the most important thing.
What lock are we talking about? I didn’t see it posted but maybe it was. If it is a Pedersoli, the two examples I have (I know that’s a small sample.) the frizzen spring was taken from a Mack truck. They are way too strong. But that said each sparks OK. Not great but, OK.
poordevil
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Thank you everyone for the good help. It looked like the problem was the frizzen was rubbing on the side of the BBL a bit. A little file work has taken care of it mostly. It opens almost all the way and sparks are falling in the pan well now.
I also polished up the moving parts, with that and use, it should be good to go!
Thanks again
P
I also polished up the moving parts, with that and use, it should be good to go!
Thanks again
P
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