Frizzen (aka hammer) won't open fully when the flint strikes it.

[Askin'sAllies]

I have a reproduction Northwest Trade Musket that has a loose feeling hammer (frizzen) that functions fairly well, but it often doesn't open fully. Somteimes it misfires even though I see a "decent" amount sparks, but again, the hammer/frizzen doesn't open fully when the flint strikes it. I assume I should try to make sure that the frizzen/hammer opens upon the scraping contact of the flint. Thoughts and/or suggestions?

Thanks for the help!

 

[HSmithTX]

Yes it should open fully and stay open, post some pictures of your lock at half cock and the frizzen closed. It could just be the flint needs adjusted forward or back and maybe the bevel flipped over.

 

[andy52]

The part that holds the flint is called a cock/hammer. the frizzen is just as it's called and yes it should open when struck by the flint.
Start by backing the screw that holds the frizzen in place only slightly.

 

[nchawkeye]

It could be rebounding as well...That is the frizzen does fully open, then bounces or rebounds backwards...Several things to check our here, the easiest is to flip the frizzen over and see if that helps...Also, take it off the gun and see if it does it as well...

 

[rich pierce]

Use as long a flint as you can and not touch at half cock. Maybe mainspring is a little weak?

 

[Sidney Smith]

The part that holds the flint is called a cock/hammer. the frizzen is just as it's called and yes it should open when struck by the flint.
Start by backing the screw that holds the frizzen in place only slightly.

You're wrong. In colonial times the frizzen was called the hammer. The part that holds the flint was/is called the cock.

 

[Tumbledown]

The part that holds the flint is called a cock/hammer. the frizzen is just as it's called and yes it should open when struck by the flint.
Start by backing the screw that holds the frizzen in place only slightly.

The historical term for the part that holds the flint is the cock, while the part the flint strikes is historically called the hammer.

 

[Tumbledown]

I have a reproduction Northwest Trade Musket that has a loose feeling hammer (frizzen) that functions fairly well, but it often doesn't open fully. Somteimes it misfires even though I see a "decent" amount sparks, but again, the hammer/frizzen doesn't open fully when the flint strikes it. I assume I should try to make sure that the frizzen/hammer opens upon the scraping contact of the flint. Thoughts and/or suggestions?

Thanks for the help!

I have had to loosen up the hammer's pivot and polish the point where the hammer contacts the spring as there was too much friction slowing it down.

 

[TDM]

For clarity’s sake I’m going to call the cock the cock and the frizzen the frizzen as it is, unfortunately, 2023. I’d suggest addressing one part at a time. Check the contact points between the frizzen and frizzen spring. Look for any burrs that could affect operation and that it moves smoothly and crisply when operated by hand. Without photos it’s impossible to tell what problem you have. If the the frizzen operates correctly, do as already said and either move the flint closer to the frizzen but not touching. If your flint won’t reach use a larger flint or try flipping your old over or double up your flint leather to give better geometry to contact the frizzen about 3/4 up. But really need to see photos of the cock to frizzen geometry.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Sounds like the frizzen is actually rebounding. Get your phone out and take a slow motion video of a dry fire and analyze the results frame by frame.

You can also put your hand just forward of the frizzen, so that it just barely touches it when it fully opens. Reset and dry fire with your hand in that position and if you feel it touch your hand, its rebounding. Sounds like it needs a stiffer feather spring.

 

[oldwood]

Make sure the frizzen bearing , the screw through the mounting hole , is lubricated , along with all the other suggestions .

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I have had this happen and its always the position of the flint. Try moving it back in the jaws and reverse the bevel orientation.

 

[ord sgt]

Start by backing the screw that holds the frizzen in place only slightly.

There are a few other things to check. Take the frizzen out of the lock. Check the toe, where it rides on the frizzen spring. It should be smooth and burr free. The frizzen screw should be smooth also. Before you restore the frizzen to it's rightful position, put a small bit of oil on the screw and sides of the frizzen pivot point and a dab of oil on the frizzen spring where the toe of the frizzen rides. Do not over tighten the frizzen screw. That should free things up.
And yes, check the flint position. On half cock, the front edge of the flint should be close to but not touching the frizzen face.

 

[andy52]

You're wrong. In colonial times the frizzen was called the hammer. The part that holds the flint was/is called the cock.

Where in my post did I say anything about what they were called 200 years ago?
Those are the terms we use now, "cock" is almost unused in modern specs whereas hammer is the driving motion. How often have you heard someone refer to a "frizzen" as a hammer?

 

[Rudyard]

I call it a Cock & steel if some times a ' battery'for older sorts , but not many use or shoot snaphance or' English 'locked guns. Hammer was an old term I myself never call the striking member a' hammer 'Its all a matter of tastes & fancies nothing to get het up about .
Rudyard s two pence

 

[andy52]

If you really get right down to it the hammer is just that and the frizzen is a moving anvil.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
You must first determine that the frizzen is not opening all the way or is opening but rebounding back on to the flint. The solutions are 180 degrees different depending on what is happening. Don't fool yourself thinking you can see rebound or not. The first step is to place a piece of masking tape on the frizzen spring where the toe of the frizzen hits when it is fully open. Fire the lock and see if there is a dimple in the tape. It will be obvious. If that is the case, then the frizzen spring is too weak and needs to be strengthened. If there is no dimple indicating the frizzen is not opening all the way, there are several solutions. The mainspring may need to be stronger, the flint may need to be longer, you may need to mount the flint bevel down in the jaws so it hits higher up on the frizzen face, and finally, the frizzen spring may be too strong or the contact of the frizzen with the spring needs to be polished or pressure reduced. Lubrication of the toe of the frizzen and the frizzen spring also will help.

dave

 

[LRB]

Listen to Dave. He knows what he is talking about.

 

[FlinterNick]

There could be a couple of reasons wrong, Dave Person addressed the major points. If you’re limited in your resources such as tools and such you may want to send it off to someone who can fix locks.

One thing i will say is that if you’re lock is Indian made, the geometry of the lock as well as the strength of the springs is almost always a factor, these locks often need extensive work just to function at an acceptable rate.

Pedersoli trade locks marked Lott often have issues with the sear area (spring and sear).

The RE Davis Trade lock is a very good lock that often just needs to be polished and slightly tuned.

 

[Rob M.]

G

Sounds like the frizzen is actually rebounding. Get your phone out and take a slow motion video of a dry fire and analyze the results frame by frame.

You can also put your hand just forward of the frizzen, so that it just barely touches it when it fully opens. Reset and dry fire with your hand in that position and if you feel it touch your hand, its rebounding. Sounds like it needs a stiffer feather spring.

Good call ! Check for rebound first ...you beat me to it . Sometimes its so fast you can't see it let alone someone that is new to the game ...