freshen barrel?

[Trot]

I have a Uberti Santa Fe Hawken that I have been trying to get to shoot well. I have never seen anything shred patches the way this thing does! I recently bought it used and expected to find a rusted pitted bore. However upon looking it appears to be very rough machining in the bore. I have smoothed up bores before with a little steel wool, but this appears to be beyond that. Would it be worthwhile to have someone freshen the bore? If so who would be a good choice to have it done? Any thoughts on what the cost may be?

 

[Rebel]

I know this is kind of a drastic step, but if you are thinking of having the bore refreshed anyway here goes. Take some VERY fine, black wet/dry sandpaper and place a strip of it throuh the slot in a slotted centerfire jag and screw it on to a metal cleaning rod with a bore guide. Spray some WD-40 on it, and also down the barrel, and put it in an electric drill. Put the barrel in a padded vice to keep it straight, and run the rod in and out a few times on high speed. Check the bore often and change paper as needed. It might clean it up for you. If not, you can still have it refreshed. :imo:

 

[Rat]

Wouldn't it be more better...instead of spinning it on a drill, put yer sandpaper on a normal cleaning jag...perhaps it would need an under sized jag...and then run it in and out with muscle power? Invite a beer drinker(s) over to help, and feed him/them beers while they help run the rod in and out and up and down. But YOU have to stay sober, so's you don't wind up with a smooth bore!!!!

:crackup:

Then progress to some steel wool on the jag with lapping compound, then steel wool and oil...that might give you a pretty nice bore.

:hmm:

Seems like you would want to stay in "harmony" with the direction of the ball, and the rifling..."seems" like a rotery motion would take down the lands a bit too fast, and not do anything in the grooves. ??

I polished the bore on my Brown Bess with steel wool and a jag, and it worked good. The temptation was GREAT to chuck it in a drill...but I figured that in the long run it would be better to have even microscopic grooves/scratches running the length of the bore, with the direction of the ball and patch and not 90 degrees to it. ??

Just throwing that in. Like the Reb sez you can still refresh or re-bore if it don't work...but I think that it would, and would be pretty safe. Not trying to argue with the Reb, we got cleaning methods for that!

Rat

 

[jtmattison]

Refer to this thread. I think it will give you a good idea of what to do.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbthr...mp;page=0#98402

Sorry Rebel, your idea sounds like it will do more damage than good.
You have to be sure to give the entire length of the bore even smoothing.

Huntin

 

[schwartzpulver]

If You-Must, Try-Please; "Lapping". NO-Circumstance; "Rotary-Sandpapering", "Steel-Wool" or other-Such; "Makeshifts".

 

[Trot]

Thanks, I will give lapping a fair try before giving in!

 

[Rat]

Sounds like what he describes is beyond lapping...but maybe not.

I have restored a couple of rusted out bores with sandpaper (very fine) and steel wool...excellent results. One bore that was on a pistol, shoots as accurately as another, same model pistol with a new, pristine barrel. Go figure! It does indeed take the lands down some, but really it's interesting how much rifling you can lose, and the firearm will still shoot good.

:results:

Will it reduce the life of the bore? Possibly, depending on how much, or how many times it will be fired per year. A hunting rifle will probably never see the bore "shot out" in the owner's lifetime. Combination target rifle, plinker, and hunting[url] rifle...again[/url], possibly.

Steel wool is quite gentle, and really will polish more than remove much metal...try removing metal from something, sometime, using steel wool...!! Not really the hot-ticket.

:no:

Anyhow, sure you don't want Bozo-Joe poking sandpaper down a good rifle barrel, but really, done intelligently, carefully, with a little bit of sanding and lot of wooling, that bore could turn out really nice. All depends on how bad it really is.

Rat

 

[Rebel]

We don't argue over cleaning methods. I know WATER is the right way, so what's to argue about. :crackup:

 

[LRB]

What most folks are calling lapping, is not really lapping. You have to polish the grooves as much as the lands and this requires a poured or fitted slug of lead used with lapping compound, mixed with patience. If you do as I have read above you will end up rounding the land edges. Find a gunsmithing book that explains how it is properly done or someone with experience that can do it, or just buy a new barrel.

 

[Rat]

Reb.......why I otta...do'h!!

Wick...but why just buy a new barrel without trying to fix the rough one? Are we men, or are we mice? Yes you will round the lands down a bit...which may or may not have any effect on accuracy...most likely not to any measureable effect. My brand new Colerain barrel was made with rounded lands and grooves.

Just shooting and cleaning a ML rounds the lands down...those puppies don't stay sharp forever.

I don't think EVERY fix has to be done "professionally", "by the book" or not at all. The Reb is right, if Trot is considering re-freshing or boring the barrel, there's no harm in trying to smooth out the bore using "makeshift" methods first.



Rat

 

[Rebel]

Thank ya kindly Rat for the words of encouragement on my approach to the problem. No i 'spose i gotta be nice fer a while. ::

 

[jim gray]

I have the perfect solution for you. Use a very tight combination of a roundball with leather patches impegnated with lapping compound and shoot it until it smooths out the bore. You are gonna have to do a lot of shooting, but why would you let that bother you :crackup:.

This way you'll know exactly when you've lapped it enough.

 

[Rat]

Flashinthepan you ninny...shooting the gun will round down the lands, so that's out of the question.

Sorry Wick, all in jest, all in jest.

:sorry:

Reb we'll put you on about two weeks probation and see how ya do.

Rat

 

[cayugad]

Buy some J-B Bore Paste and a couple new Scotch Brite Pads. Also a jar of fine grit valve grinding compound from your auto parts store. Should get some new bore brushes, your going to need them.

Before I went to the trouble of lapping I would try the J-B Bore Paste of a chunk of Scotch Brite pad. Just cut the pad in small squares. (some people cut bigger then bore circles) Be sure and oil the barrel before you start all this with a quality gun oil.

Use the Bore Paste and Scotch Brite first. Give the barrel about 50 strokes. Then clean the barrel real good and shoot the rifle to see if it made a difference.

If all else fails due the same routine with the scotch brite pad but smear some valve grinding compound on it. Give it about 50 strokes and clean the barrel. Be sure and add more compound about every 15-20 strokes. After you clean the barrel then shoot it.

If your blowing patches and shredding patches try putting a wonderwad between the powder and the projectile. Many times that will stop the patch damage. Trying that would be a lot easier then lapping..

Good luck

 

[schwartzpulver]

So-Many The-Ways One-May; "A Smooth-Bore Create!". Cannot The Barrel-See, "Lead-Lapping"-Suggestion. Excessive Tool-Marks, Wear, One-Best; "Re-Rifle" (Correctly!).

 

[Charles/NM]

I have an old book on making muzzle loaders from scratch. It suggests lapping only to with in an inch or so of end of the the muzzle. Reason is to keep the last bit of bore smaller in diameter or choked. It's supposed to make loading easier - ball goes down easy once past the choke and makes the rifle less fussy about loads. Just something to think about.

 

[roundball]

.....ball goes down easy once past the choke.....

Seems like that would still be the case if the bore was lapped all the way out the muzzle...ie: larger diameter the full length of the bore?
::

 

[Zonie]

Charles is refering to intentionally choked rifle barrels.

There was a time when there were great debates about the merits of lapping most the bore larger, starting about 2-3 inches behind the muzzle and proceeding down to the breech plug.
The idea was to allow the ball to expand due to obturation as it starts to move. Then although it is battered to a smaller size as it travels down the bore towards the muzzle, it will be swaged by the choked area for a perfect fit and engagement with the rifleing during those last two or three inches before reaching the muzzle.
It was thought that this would improve accuracy.

The other side of the debate said hogwash!! It doesn't matter because the patch is resiliant enough to offset any significient effects the choke might make.

I have never seen any scientific study results which say which side is right. :shocking:

 

[rayb]

I seem to remember that H M Pope often used gain twist, but don't remember if he also use a little muzzle choke. Some where there's a book on Pope barrels that might have some discussion. Mine is stored in a box someplace

rayb

 

[irishjim]

I had a Uberti Sante Fe Hawken years ago which was a good RB shooter and had sharp well made rifling. I had trouble finding anything other than round balls to shoot in it since it is really a .53 caliber.

Are you suggesting re-rifling when you say "freshen the barrel"? If that is what your asking I suspect it is possible. As I remember the gun is close to 1" across the flats so there should be plenty of metal.

If there is a Gander Mountain or a full service gun shop in your area they all have resident gunsmiths that might be able to accomplish the task.

They might be able to expand the rifling to a more standard .54 caliber. That would open up a larger choice of conicals and sabots to shoot.

:m2c: