Flint GPR

[Jfoster]

Have a friend who has a flint GPR. He is not computer savvy. He wanted me to ask if it would be anywhere remotely HC/PC to any time period. He was thinking the plains era like sante fe trail and such. However unsure. I told him id ask those much more knowledgable.

Thanks
GB

 

[Rifleman1776]

He would be just fine. But, personally, I don't care for the shiny 'new factory made' look on the GPR, TCs, etc. He can disassemble, take down the finish to wood, sand and oil then darken the brass to give a used look patina. More better looking that way, IMHO.

 

[Jfoster]

Thanks! Ill let him know. Any idea what era this would best fit in?

 

[Jfoster]

Also would browning the metal be appropriate? He really likes the look of the browned barrels.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks! Ill let him know. Any idea what era this would best fit in?

I'm far from expert on this, but the fur trade period (up to about 1830) would be ideal. However, flint in that style rifle was unusual. But don't fret it, flint is just fine.

 

[Jfoster]

Very cool. I actually shot it yesterday and quite liked the feel of it. Lol. Would percussion be more correct for that style rifle? I liek the "ease" of flint to be honest when it comes to the loading and firing process. As long as my flint is sharp it just needs a charge in the pan. No caps, capping tool, etc to worry about.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Would percussion be more correct for that style rifle?

In the ml avocation I have a problem with the "more correct" notions. Serious reenacting is another matter. But, in the broad world of ml'ing it is a 'do yer own thang' game. Lot of factors are involved. For many/most it is budget. Not everyone can afford a 'correct' custom built rifle. Your likes and equipment will evolve with time in this game. As I said, do yer own thang and enjoy.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

There is no brass on the Lyman GPR.

OP, half-stock flintlock rifles of the plains style were a rarity but they DID exist. I remember seeing one that was an original custom job. Carried by a famous mountain man IIRC. Also the Harper's Ferry military rifle of 1803 was a half-stock firelock.

But that VAST majority seem to have been full-stocked guns. The Traditions Kentucky is a solid rifle for the money and really would be much more historically correct to the period:
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalo...Black+Powder+Rifles/TRADITIONS+KENTUCKY+RIFLE

Pedersoli also makes a Kentucky rifle that is a cut above the Traditions but more expensive:
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Kentucky-Flintlock-Rifle/740427.uts

My flintlock GPR was a nice gun but I sold it. Partially because quite frankly, no the design is not historically correct. If you use your imagination and take a lot of liberties you could maybe shoehorn it in somewhere, but at the end of the day it's a modern repro with no close historical analogs, at least none that existed in any numbers.

 

[Gene L]

I disagree. The historical Hawken rifles were mostly half-stock, which you can confirm by researching. Kit Carson's rifle was a shorter half-stock rifle in about .38 caliber.

There is no way a two-piece stock, like the Traditions, is a copy of a 19th Century rifle. It's built on the cheap and looks like it, although it may shoot great.

My GPR is cap lock and shoots great. I browned the barrel and it looks great. For hunting and general shooting/convenience, I prefer a cap lock, for looks I like a flinter. Either one is PC.

 

[Jfoster]

Do you have photos of it post browning?

 

[Micah Clark]

I have a LH - GPR in Flint . . . funny I was looking at it the other day and wondering what a gun builder, with knowledge of historic ML's might do to it with a few chisels and gouges to make it more historically accurate.

Funny . . . I was always led to believe that the GPR is much closer to being historically accurate than all those in the 70's & 80's called Hawken's . . TC, CVA Cabela's, Lyman Trade rifle etc etc. . . and when I look at Track of the Wolf's Jim Bridger or Kit Carson rifle kits, they look very much like maple versions of the GPR to me.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Go ahead and show me a half-stocked FLINTLOCK J&S Hawken rifle. You can't.

FLINTLOCK half-stock rifles were a rarity in American history. The OP is asking whether a FLINT GPR is historically accurate for any time period.

It really isn't if we're being honest with ourselves.

 

[Shedhunter]

The English sporting rifles were made in half stock flints. Some have the basic lines of a GPR. Not common but certainly not non existent either. Shoot it and enjoy it.

 

[Gene L]

I don't have a picture, but do have a description from the NRA museum.

'Circa 1849 Samuel Hawken (U.S.) Percussion Plains Rifle (single-shot/ muzzle-loading/ black powder/ ball ammunition) The late 1840s saw an increase in U.S. westward expansion, up the Missouri River, across the Great Plains, over the Rocky Mountains, and to the Pacific coast. At first, the lure was fur, then cheap land, and finally, gold. Symbolic of this movement was a half-stock heavyweight firearm, variously called the Plains Rifle" and the "Mountain Rifle," which originated in St. Louis, Missouri.



The most famous makers of these rifles were two brothers, Jake and Sam Hawken. This example was made by Sam Hawken in 1849, just as the California Gold Rush began. It and its kin are symbolic of the fervor for Manifest Destiny, which had infected the U.S. between 1835 and 1850. Soon after 1850, however, the spoils of this Manifest Destiny would lead to internal disagreement over the expansion of slavery into new lands." - Dr. William L. Roberts, THE AMERICAN LIBERTY COLLECTION; #58"

I realize the referenced rifle to a picture I can't post is a cap lock, but I see neither rhyme or reason they would continue making full length rifles and go for half-stocks. Since half-lock rifles stiffen the barrel quite a bit over a wood-supported barrel.

 

[Gene L]

Do you have photos of it post browning?

I'll see if I can get one posted. I browned all the iron, not just the barrel. Glad I did, but I don't think I did a great job, using Plumbrown.

 

[Zonie]

I disagree...

There is no way a two-piece stock, like the Traditions, is a copy of a 19th Century rifle. It's built on the cheap and looks like it, although it may shoot great...

 

[Gene L]

No doubt a repair.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

One could cover the two piece stock juntion with a rawhide band. Common repair from those times.

Still going to look more authentic than a flint GPR.

 

[azmntman]

It is all in the eye of the shooter/owner. Many of us started with and were and remain happy with el-cheapo's like the Bass Pro offering or a "mountain Stalker" or the CVA Bobcat. Others just have to have a custom hand made rifle exactly matching an original somewhere back in the good ol days when men were men and remained so all their life.

I started with a Kentucky traditions 2 psc stock .45 caplock. At age 10 I built it myself. It was fun and accurate as most I have owned. I have also owned or still own Bobcats, Mountain Stalkers, CVA hawkens of many styles (which are really all the same style mostly), a GPR, some Cabelas Hawkins, a Traditions Flinters, a Armi Sports Enfield, several shot guns and several revolvers. I like em all.

I will likley one day own a custom made (or at least a Kibler kit) just to get the highly recommended better locks and triggers. Heck, I may even build one myself someday way down the line.

So ignore the bickering, stop the nay saying and just get out and shoot! If were were to stop shooting our powder supplies would grow too large to store....like beer, we have to drink it or it takes over the fridge in a just a few weeks :shocked2:

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

You know amen to that, at the end of the day enjoying these guns at the range or in the woods is the important part! :thumbsup: