First Flintlock?

[Leadslinger585]

Hello,

With the coming ban laws, I figure if I'm in California might as well go wayyy back and make a hobby of black powder shooting.

So...

I really like the finished rifle shown on Track of the Wolf link

Who do you recommend that can build me one like that? Left handed, flintlock & .45 caliber (I think. Unless you folks suggest a bigger/smaller ball).

Now I did a little scouting around and I'm thinking I might want Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading to do the work.

However they're a little sparse on pictures and their engraving work isn't showcased at all. I've e-mailed them, and last I heard they said they'd have to ask their carver about the work. Been about 5 days so... Does anyone here have any examples of their work?

Or perhaps a recommendation for another builder?

Also what twist rate would you recommend for someone who mainly wants to target shoot lead round ball, but might someday hunt deer (also with lead round ball)?

Thank you kindly folks!
-Jay

 

[Gene L]

That's a high-dollar rifle with all that engraving. A work of art. Several thousand dollars and up.

Beautiful gun there. TVM built my first and only flintlock and did a great job. Plainer that that one of course but still beautiful.

A .45 caliber is good for target shooting, but I thought you couldn't hunt with lead in CA.

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

I would recommend Chuck Edwards. He is one of the best. His engraving is top notch. Some of the best engraving work I've seen has come from him. Give him a call and discuss what your looking for and any questions. He has always taken time to anwser all my questions and made sure that I'm satisfied. Give him a call 573-568-2075. You can examples of his work by google chuck edwards longrifles and look at his Facebook page.

 

[Black Hand]

If you will hunt deer at some point, I'd go with a 50 or 54 caliber - I recommend the 54.

 

[Snakebite]

I sent you a PM with some suggestions. Welcome to the fold.

 

[jimmy82]

I second a .50 or .54, but .45 will kill deer. I actually haven't looked to hard into "best twist." It would depend on barrel length and powder charge. Powder charge is the easiest to manipulate as barrels have become rather standardized. Certain manufactures only offer predetermined length/profile/twist. Rice will do custom orders to an extent if I remember correctly though. But if you want any accuracy out of a PRB, nothing faster than 1/48 is generally acceptable. My Rice barrels came with 1/56 in .45. My .50 Colerain's are 1/60 iirc. Smaller calibers like .36 will have a somewhat faster twist though.

Forum at large: It's been a while, but wasn't there a guy name Geotz or something like that did custom barrels?

 

[nwtradegun]

i recommend 54 cal. with a 1 in 66 twist for round ball. that would make it legal in any state to hunt . also a shorter barrel say 36 in.

 

[Flintlock]

You might want to take a look at the communist state of California's game laws, I think the ban on using lead projectiles for all hunting even non game animals went into effect now. Not sure, but worth a look. For a all around rifle, it's pretty hard to go wrong with a 50. Plinking and small game with light loads and still big enough for deer and pig.

 

[Black Hand]

The all-around best choice would be to move away from California...

 

[Zonie]

Before you put a lot of money into your rifle, be aware of California's views on shooting lead projectiles.

Here's a quote from the California Department of Fish and Wildlife:

"In October 2013, Assembly Bill 711 was signed into law requiring the phase-out of lead ammunition for hunting anywhere in the state by July 1, 2019. The bill also required an implementation plan designed to impose the least burden on California’s hunters while adhering to the intent of the law.

In order to determine what was least disruptive to hunters, CDFW coordinated question and answer sessions at sportsmen’s shows, held meetings with hunting organizations and hosted a series of eight public workshops throughout the state. CDFW then presented draft regulations, as modified by public input from these workshops, to the Fish and Game Commission.

In April 2015, the Fish and Game Commission adopted CDFW’s proposed regulations and implementation plan.

Further phase-out of lead ammunition for hunting in California will continue on July 1, 2016, when nonlead ammunition will be required when hunting with shotguns for upland game birds (except for dove, quail and snipe), small game mammals, fur-bearing mammals and nongame birds except for when hunting at licensed game bird clubs. Nonlead ammunition will also be required when taking wildlife with shotguns for depredation purposes anywhere in the state.

Starting July 1, 2019, hunters must use nonlead ammunition when taking any animal anywhere in the state for any purpose.

Lead ammunition may still be used for target shooting. Existing restrictions on the use of lead ammunition in the California condor range remain in effect while implementation proceeds.

Hunting is not allowed at all CDFW wildlife areas and ecological reserves. For those areas where hunting is allowed, nonlead ammunition will be required starting July 1, 2015. Hunters are reminded to be familiar with all hunting regulations before going into the field."
https://cdfgnews.wordpress.com/201...s-no-lead-ammo-on-cdfw-lands-starting-july-1/

There currently are very few things that work well as a substitute for lead roundballs in a muzzleloader and I don't know that California has approved any of them for use in the field.

 

[Vaino]

I no longer take orders, but have built very similar Lancasters. The Rice bbls were "C" weight, swamped, 54cal.. and 44" long. Twist is 1:66 for a PRB.

A very appropriate flintlock for a Lancaster is Chambers' Dale Johnson....is easy to position and has all the latest Chambers' improved parts and geometry. The bottom LR has a Dale Johnson.

Good luck w/ your search....Fred







There are quite a few builders who could make that LR for you......but choose carefully. Some of the well known builders have extended deliveries.

 

[wattlebuster]

Black Hand has given the most logical advise :hmm: Nobody can be a leadslinger in California

 

[Pete G]

Take a look at the Track of the Wolf website. You might find what you are looking for. They give an inspection period and if you don't like the piece you can send it back for a refund. The only risk you have is return postage.

 

[ZUG]

Since you will be doing most if not ALL of your shooting at targets (paper, cans, and such) not game animals (CA does not want people to kill poor defenseless creatures). You would be best off with a .45 caliber maybe a .50. Anything bigger and you are just wasting lead & powder (since you will NOT be hunting). As for where to buy - my recommendation would be to contact Tip Curtis Phone: 615-654-4445
Location: Cross Plains, TN 37049. He can set you up with anything your little old heart desires for a reasonable price. Then you can take the brass parts off that you want engraved and send them to Smitty's Engraving 21320 Pioneer Circle, Harrah, OK 73045 and he will engrave what you want for a very reasonable price also -- they are very good people to deal with :thumbsup: .

 

[dhaverstick]

Sent you a PM about a possible gunsmith for you.

Darren

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well, personally I'd look really hard at a Jim Kibler Rifle Kit as Mr. Kibler is now offering them in .45 caliber..., and if I was in California, and getting a .45 which normally shoots a .440 diameter, patched round ball, I look into switching over to .4375 Brass Round Ball. While the wood might be available fancy, the carving would not be on that type of rifle, but..., if you're going out to hunt with that you might not want to mar the carving on a really nicely embellished rifle.

Some folks might not like the drop in mass from lead to brass, so you might want to consider contacting the company in the above link about .490 brass round ball. They do mention they will make other sizes. They do offer a .5625 brass ball, so maybe you should try something in .58 with a thick patch? Not available from Mr. Kibler but there are other maker out there.


LD

 

[nchawkeye]

Actually, you need 2, a .40 for target work and a .54 for your out of state hunts...

 

[Don Steele]

Like NChawkeye said.
40 yrs. ago, when I got my first mailorder muzzleloader, if I knew then what I know now it would have been a 54 caliber. I went with 50. I have nothing against 50's. Heck, I have 4 of them. I have become convinced over the years however that a better 2-rifle battery for me would be 54 to hunt deer and hogs and a 40 for fun, competition, etc.
I FINALLY got my 40 last year and it's pretty much all I shoot until hunting season rolls around.

 

[steinauge32]

Jimmy 82 I reckon you are thinking of Getz barrels.They were first class,but I havent seen one in years.