Finding the proper size cleaning jag?

[Greenjoytj]

I find my jag patch combo impossible to insert into the muzzle.

I have a 45 cal flintlock, I'm using what is supposed to be a 45 cal cleaning jag that measures .425" diameter with Butch's triple twill patches that measure .011".

I don't want to have to hammer this combo into the bore I'm sure it would just get stuck permanently.

I have a .370" jag that will slide this patch into the bore, it is tight to start it in, then you wish it was a little larger once you start sliding back and forth.

Is their some rule of thumb to get the correct jag size.

Should the measurement of the actual bore dia. (not groove dia.) equal the sum of the jag dia plus 2 times the patch thickness?
This should fit as the math proves. But should I include some or all of the groove dia. in the above calculation?

Is it normal to have to whack the cleaning rod with a hammer to start the patch into the muzzle?

 

[BrownBear]

I dunno of any formula, but I have several "work arounds." One is based on the fact that in some guns a dry patch is too thick, even when the same patch is fine when wet. Since I use so few dry patches, I carry a few thinner ones for dry use.

Another is to find a smaller jag, in your case perhaps a 44 cal.

Since I have some odd-size bores, even those approaches don't always work. I start with a too-large jag, but chuck it in the jaws of an electric hand drill and use a file to reduce it's diameter. Works slick and quick, and beats searching for and paying for a custom version.

 

[Vaino]

I use old flannel shirts for cleaning patches and they vary as to thickness so the dias of the jags are reduced in a drill press and then "marked".....Fred

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

What I do is wrap the threads of the jag with some duct tap, a turn or 2. Chuck that into a drill-motor gently. Spin it and carefully take off a few thousandths with a flat file till I get the fit I like. If you feel you then need to freshen up the saw teeth then a tri-corner file can work up the backside of the tooth in the same manner. Some times a Buck knife will get-r-dun (I have a tiny Buck knife).

Though it is easier to fit the patch to the jag. I end up using white cotton flannel, and @ $6/yard I get about 550 cleaning patches, enough for a months shooting at least.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Since I have some odd-size bores, even those approaches don't always work. I start with a too-large jag, but chuck it in the jaws of an electric hand drill and use a file to reduce it's diameter. Works slick and quick, and beats searching for and paying for a custom version.

Ye musta seen me doing that. :wink:
Been doing it for many years.
Just keep the cuts deep in the jag so it will hold the patch. I actually break old files (wear eye protection when doing the breaking) and use those as my makeshift cutting tools

 

[tiger955]

You are not using a dry patch in a dirty bore are you? They will almost always get stuck. I am not familiar with Butch's patches, I just use what I have in my rag bag, often old tee shirts. I use off the shelf jags sized for the caliber and if my patch is too thin double it, too thick, use thinner rag.
The only time I use a dry patch is when I wipe the oil out of a clean bore before shooting, and then it is a thin, soft material.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I make and sell many ramrods and I make my jag ends 35-40 thousands under the bore size and have no problems. The ideal fit is to have the patch slide down the bore easily, bunch up the cleaning patch and pull the fouling out when you withdraw the rod. A tight fitting patch will push the fouling down ahead of it which is not what you want. You want to pull the fouling out.Not pack it in.! :hmm: :hmm:

 

[Tumblernotch]

I do about the same with the jags I make. I turn them to .030 to .035 under bore size. I use medium weight flannel from shirts and pajamas for cleaning patches and either size jag works fine. I always turn the shank small enough to leave plenty of room for the patches to bunch up. There have been some that I had to make a good bit smaller or a good bit larger for other shooters who were using much thicker or thinner patches. Usually one cut between .030 to .040 will do for about anything our guys use.

 

[ohio ramrod]

You mentioned flannel from pajamas. I was using faded pink cleaning patches at a rendezvous a few years back and was getting a lot of comments about it. I simply replied that I had wanted to rip that old flannel nightgown off of my wife ever since her great aunt gave it to her! :rotf: :rotf:

 

[William O.]

Is it normal to have to whack the cleaning rod with a hammer to start the patch into the muzzle?

No, it is not. All my cleaning jags, 50 & 54 caliber worked fine from the get go and the patches are either dampened with alcohol or have a bit of JB's Bore Paste on them but don't have to be forced down.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I make and sell many ramrods and I make my jag ends 35-40 thousands under the bore size and have no problems. The ideal fit is to have the patch slide down the bore easily, bunch up the cleaning patch and pull the fouling out when you withdraw the rod. A tight fitting patch will push the fouling down ahead of it which is not what you want. You want to pull the fouling out.Not pack it in.! :hmm: :hmm:

Good post. Not everyone understands that. The rebate behind is the jag isn't for looks. That is a very practical design. And, if you look in museums there are many hand whittled original 'wiping stick's that have exactly the same design.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Is it normal to have to whack the cleaning rod with a hammer to start the patch into the muzzle?

No, no, no, it isn't normal. I know I'm repeating what others have said. But this is a good, basic information, thread. Read and re-read the posts here. They will save you a lot of trouble and headaches.

 

[longrifle346]

Great advice/tutorial and one of those I put into my "Man...I wish I'd seen this earlier!" file. In a effort to thoroughly clean between shots during the sight-in of a new GM 58 with it's deeper (than my TC) grooves it didn't seem like I could get a clean patch, even after numerous attempts. I added additional patching to the jag and promptly deposited the entire wad of fouling from the grooves into the breach/flash channel. Of course that resulted in a failure to fire, the obligatory clearing, and a thorough cleaning. The perils of trial and error.... :cursing:

 

[Greenjoytj]

Thank you, this is the info I needed. I'm going to file my jag down until I get the fit this rifle needs.

 

[Mike 56]

I use a jag that is one size smaller than the bore with two cleaning patches. Two patches does a better job of cleaning for me.

 

[Tumblernotch]

You mentioned flannel from pajamas. I was using faded pink cleaning patches at a rendezvous a few years back and was getting a lot of comments about it. I simply replied that I had wanted to rip that old flannel nightgown off of my wife ever since her great aunt gave it to her! :rotf: :rotf:

Yeah, I got some interesting comments about my pink patches with Teddy Bears on them when using them to wipe out a big chunk gun. I won't get in to the details here...but dern it, whenever I get more material for my guns, she's already covered herself up with something new. Shouldn't complain I guess. At least she's keeping me in patches. Wish I had some more of that pink Teddy Bear stuff. About the nicest flannel I ever used!

 

[Mike 56]

I have a nice supply flannel sheets i use for patches.
Mike

 

[Tumblernotch]

Those would sure be a lot easier to cut than shirts! I think we have one flannel sheet that will soon be worn out enough to salvage. Maybe Mommy will let Daddy have it. Hope so anyways.

What I like is stuff that is plaid like my old shirts. Those lines make nice cut marks.