Enfield .58 Cal. Replica

[Enfield 1858]

I inherited a Parker/Hale 1858 Enfield Naval, .58 Cal. Replica in very good condition.

I bought black powder and Hornady .570 Round balls. The gun shop told me to try the .010 and .018 prelubed patches.

I've never shot the gun, or any muzzel loader.
The Loading and Maintenance instructions recommend using a Minie or swaged bullet of .575 Diameter. No mention of patches.

If i'm going to use the .570 dia. balls, which patch thickness should I use? Should I start with the .010? I wouldn't want to get it stuck in the barrel. How much pressure should I expect to use when pushing the ball down into the barrel.

It's recommended to use a .575 ball and no patch. I have .570 ball, that's .005 smaller but a .010 patch would be .570 + .020.
.010 a side, equalling .590


Also, it recommends 50 to 70 grains of FFG or Fg
black powder for average conditions. I have the FFg. Any thoughts on this?

I'm not sure how to use the adjustable sight either.

I'm really looking forward to safely shooting it and becoming a good shot with it, so I can use it deer hunting next year.

I plan on never selling the gun, but I am interested in the value. One gun shop said about $800?

Any help for this greenhorn would be appreciated.
Thanks

Proof
Your Enfield rifle has been proofed at the Birmingham Proof House and is marked with a service load of 3 1/2 drams of powder with a 536 grain bullet.
As a guarantee of safety however,it has in fact withstood a charge of 7 drams with a 724 grain bullet.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I'm not sure just what a "naval" model is, they are generally classified as the long "three band", the mid length "two band" or the short "musketoon". Your dealer's guess of $800 is about right for any of them.
You should have no trouble loading a .570 ball with the .018" patch. Your calculation in adding patch thickness to ball diameter fails to take into consideration that he cloth is highly compressible and that the rifling grooves are deeper. You likely will need a ball starter to start the load past the muzzle. Those steel ramrods are hard to grip to run the ball on down but have a lot of momentum to aid in ramming the ball with short strokes. For just plinking on the range 50-70 grains of either 2f or 3f Goex will be fine, you can load well over 100 grains but if you don't need the power I'd not bother with heavy loads. Also, for range shooting the only patch lube you will need is spit, just pop a patch into your mouth and get it well moistened with saliva. For hunting or any time you'll leave the gun loaded for some length of time you will need a patch lube like Crisco, olive oil, or one of the commercial lubes. Although the rifling was designed for minie balls they generally shoot a patched round ball very well, often better than a minie ball and without much fiddling to find the best load as minies often require.
The sights on any of the military rifles are set up for the much heavier minie balls and to maximize the point blank range on human targets. It will most likely shoot 6"-12" high at fifty yards. That is a fine gun if you like the military style. Do be careful in cleaning and taking care of it, the powder fouling is very corrosive and must be cleaned thoroughly after firing even one shot. I'm sure you will enjoy it. :grin:

 

[ian45662]

The thickness of your patches will probably depend on how deep the rifling is. I believe the deeper the rifling the thicker the patch you need. I would try snaller patch first. Try a 3 shot string with that then sab the barrel and another 3 shot string with the thicker patches and see which combo shoots the best

 

[Enfield 1858]

Thank you for the reply.

From what I've read so far, the "naval" is the 2 band (mid length) with the 33" barrel, 1 to 48" twist.
I'm not sure how many grooves or the depth.

I have a ball starter, but I still need a powder measure, a funnel, and the cap with tube that screws onto the black powder can. Maybe a powder flask and speed loads.

Would you recommend saftey glasses, since I,ve never fired it before?

After firing, what will the condition of the patch tell me?

The gun shop recommended that while hunting, after placing the cap, to wrap electrical tape around so the cap does not fall off.

 

[Enfield 1858]

I believe it is a progressive depth, 5 grooved
barrel.

It has a sword bar on the barrel.

 

[Enfield 1858]

Thanks for the advise.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are using the correct size percussion cap for that nipple, just pinch the sides of the cap a little before putting it on the gun, lower the hammer to the half cock notch( which is a " safety of sorts") and don't worry about losing the cap off the nipple. Work your way up as you gain more experience in using various accoutrements with your rifle. Start with just the cheap funnel made as part of a screw cap for your power can. A wood peg you whittle, or even a rubber pencil eraser designed to fit over the tip of a worn out eraser can be used to cover the top of your cartridge " funnel". When you decide how much shooting you want to do, you can choose a flask, or powder horn to fit the period of the gun, or just buy what you like. You do want to own a good range rod, and jags for loading, cleaning, pulling bullets and putting wads that get stuck down the barrel. These are in addition to what came with the gun. You will eventually buy or make a range box, to carry all your gear and extra supplies. Go to major shoots, and look at what other shooters are using. Shop a lot. Find the best gear at the best price for you. Don't be in a hurry to spend money. There are good buys to be had on the internet using supplier on-line catalogues. The Parker-Hale Enfields are a well made gun. Kept clean and in good condition, it should serve you well for the rest of your life, and the lives of our granchildren.

 

[boar]

As you are new to this I will add when you wipe the bore that has been oiled after cleaning,you will want to do this, before loading, be sure to moisten the dry patch a little so it don't hang up down at the bottom. If it does just add a little oil or water and when patch gets it, it will come out. If you pull off the patch you will need a patch or ball puller to get it out. Dilly

 

[mike alexandre]

Try this site for Enfield info
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/musketry/enfieldmanagement.htm

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The service load for the Enfield should be 2 1/2 drams or 68 grains of FFg. 3 1/2 drams will most likely blow out the skirt on a Minie ball.

 

[JCW]

I would say ear and eye protection is a must. All ranges that I have shot on require these items. My own preference's are yellow lens shooting glasses. Regular safety glasses seem to have distortion. I use foam ear plugs.

 

[skeet]

Hey 58 cal.,
Your going to love your gun and it is great for deer hunting. I use the same gun, except mine is the cheaper Euroarms brand. You have the top of the line brand, people drool to get that gun!
Here is what I have learned with mine and what I have read in great forums such as this one.
Defintly read the website that justmike talks about.
You should watch the N-SSA (Civil war reenactors) website forum also, they know the 58 cal. and i have learned a lot from that forum also.
I have found the best thing it shoots is what ever is tight in the barrel. The roundball/patches you have mentioned are fine. The nice part of the twist in that barrel is roundballs work fine and so do minies. The sights work this way: for short shots (50 yards or less) put the front sight half way in the back sight. For shots 75 yards or farther, fill the back sight completely with the front sight. Of course, you need to go to the target range and see where your gun shoots.
I shoot 70 grains of Pyrodex RS or select( i use pyrodex, cause my dad always used pyrodex and have never tryed anything different). My first shot deer hunting is with a TC Maxi - hunter. All 560 grains worth. I also shoot buffalo bullets, but i think they went out of business. Every deer I have hit with that gun, the bullet goes right thru them, doesn't matter if it is a head shot or chest shot. It vaporizes the lungs.
My musket caps will fall off at times walking thru brush, I haven't tryed electrical tape, but in this forum they recommended fileing the nipple down till your musket cap is snug, i have tryed pinching caps, it doesn't work for me. Again, different types of caps fit differently and they say has a different point of aim.
Everyone who shoots my gun can't beleive the light recoil. You can shoot a heavy load, but the skirts on the minies will blow out (reducing accuracy). It's not needed. It sounds like a lot of the N-SSA guys shoot 40 grains. Historically the guns were built for 68 grains. My buddy is a tool and die guy, so i had him measure the inside of the barrel, its supposed to be .577, but my cheap Euroarms is .580, so the larger bullets work better until the barrel gets fouled (which is usually the 4th shot or more) Then the .577 minies work very well. Again, the bullet has to be tight, not so tight it takes max. effort to ram it down, but when you put it in the end of the barrel, it shouldn't fall down in either.
The best thing to do is a lot of target practice, you will find out what it does and it may differ from what I have offered. I have never picked up my shotgun again to deer hunt after using the Enfield!
Good luck and good hunting!

 

[Enfield 1858]

You guys are really giving me some great info and I really appreciate it. I can't wait to shoot it
this weekend. I measured the Inside diameter of the bore, I'm getting like .582-.585
It's kind of hard to measure, caliper jaws are square, and round bore surface. Plus the grooves. If I had a bore gage or plug gages it would be a lot easier and accurate. The Hornady lead balls measue .565-.570 I wish I new the groove depth and whether they are the same depth the whole length of the barrel. Progressive grooves? What does that mean? I'm thinking I will use the .018 T/C pre lubed pillow tacking patches with the .570 round balls and 100 grains of powder.
I'm thinking it would be a good idea to target practice and hunt with the same loads to help become as accurate as possible for hunting. I'll try the yellow glasses and ear plugs.

I won't be modifying the nipple in any way.

In my booklet that came with the gun it states" as a guarantee of saftey however, it has in fact withstood a charge of 7 drams with a 724 grain bullet." 7 drams equals 192.5 grains. Is my conversion correct? Not that I would try that much. I wonder how many grains a .570 round ball is?

"The recomended bullet is a pure lead Minie cast or swaged bullet of .575 Dia. Use the Parker Hale 560 grain mould for best results in your Enfield rifle."

I learned swaged means forged. Forged means higher quality to me than cast. Is a round ball considered a bullet?

Thanks.

If I'm shooting at a distance of 75 yards, will using 100 grains as opposed to 70 grains change where the bullet hits the target?

 

[bub524]

What you probably have is a first generation Parker Hale Enfield. It would have the markings you identified. Serial # 1-10000 were made entirely in Birmingham. 10001- about 30000 were made in Italy with Birmingham made barrels, higher Numbers were made in Italy.
This info applies to the 3 band only. I've seen some English made muskatoons but have not seen any English 2 banders.

 

[skeet]

Yes it could change the point of aim, depending on how big of a load you use. The nice part of these Civil War guns is, they don't need heavy loads as you are describing. Here is how it works: The minie bullet has a hollow end with a "skirt" (a skirt is thin lead that forms around the base of the hollow spot). When fired the skirt expands to the groove in the barrel and locks in, giving it more accuracy as it spins out of the barrel. When you use a heavy load (bigger than 70 grains) you blow that skirt out and it doesn't grab the grooves and your bullet doesn't have the accuracy. Now the Maxi Hunters i use don't have a hollow end or a skirt, you may want to try something like that if you want to use a 100 grain load. I've never shot anything more than 80 grains out of mine.
Yeppers, use yellow lensed glasses and ear protection, although when hunting I must admit I don't.
Good luck at the target range, try different loads and different bullets and your round ball to see what it shoots best. It can be hard to find bullets for the 58, mostley I have to shop online. Cabelas and Gander Mountain arn't very nice to us 58 claiber guys. Track of the Wolf is one place that comes to mind.

 

[rebel727]

I use thin skirted minies and while my regular load now is 70 grs. mine shoots 100 gr. loads without blowing skirts. I use a soft home cast traditional minie at 460 grs. I have a 475 gr. mold but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

 

[skeet]

I was hoping you would chime in rebel727, you seem to have a lot of experience with the 2 band Enfield.
The god of the Enfield is David Whenchell ( i spelled that wrong, sorry David).

He should be along soon to add his experience. He shoots long range and won another big competition this year.

 

[skeet]

The folks at[url] www.Lodgewood.com[/url] are great also. I highly recommend them.

 

[Enfield 1858]

Bub, the only numbers I see are 1786
I guess that's it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Skeet: You are being extremely foolish NOT wearing eye protection(glasses) when you shoot any gun, IMHO. I have seen enough accidents over the years to convince me this is an issue not take lightly. My local gun club rules mandate wearing glasses and ear protection on the firing line at the club, its that important.

My own father had a .22 Rimfire casing rupture the edge of the rim, while shooting his rifle off a bench rest, and the burning priming compound came up and back into his face. He got minor burns on his nose, cheek, and brow, but he was wearing glasses, and they saved his eye. It was a product flaw, not by the ammo maker, but by the company that provided the Sheet Brass used to make the casings. It happened again several years later, but the second time, the spray missed Dad's face. Dad had been shooting since he was a boy, and had fired thousands of .22s and never experienced anything like these two incidents up until then.

You only get issued one set of eyes. Protect them.