Dreaded Chain Fire

[FishDFly]

There are many things that people do to stop the dreaded” chain fire” in a pistol.

When I visualize a “chain fire”, I think of the pistol shooting one chamber and then going to the next, to the next, etc., thus the name “chain fire”, is the correct?

Some actions that are taken to prevent a chain fire that come to mind are a ball that cuts a ring when loaded, felt wads and grease on top of the ball.

How often does a chain fire happen and what is the real probability of it happening.. I asked several shooters if they had it happen or knew someone who had and the answer was no.

I would think the probability of it happening seems very remote.

Was wondering.

Thanks

RDE

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Richard,

I've never personally experienced having two or more chambers fire at the same time. There seems to be some disagreement about whether it's caused by the flame going past the ball or going past the capped nipple. Could be by both. I'm sure you'll get more replies on this. GW

 

[Freedom]

I think VERY rare... I have shot 10's of 1000's of balls out of my C&B's and many of those were loaded very carelessly, no lube, loose and bent caps, just pouring in a "that'l do amount of powder".

Random powder charges make a chain fire hard to detect, but I think I have had a few? As a teenager you know too much and life is too easy to concern oneself with the little details :haha: Now I know better and am blessed to have survived those years.


Several times a shot would blow some of the other caps off leaving uncaped nipples just open to the flame of the shots that still had caps.

I know that there was a few times that I was sure all chambers were loaded,..while firing fast I have come to chambers that missfired and on inspection there was no load left in the chamber and the bore was clear, Or a "Whoa,that was a Big load!" so I suppose that a chain fire had occured, no harm ever came to the gun or me.

The only place that a chainfire would be all that damageing would be if the 6 O'clock chamber fired right under the loading rod, other than that there is room and the soft lead ball will exit without much danger. :surrender: :v

 

[Raider2000]

I've had a few chain fires in the past, most of them were when I had this cheap FIE Brass Framed 1860 .44 & the chambers were not uniform in diameter & sometimes I would "not pay attention" & have the sprue up top when loading which in turn with no lube or wads I would get a chain fire probably from the front of the chamber but I'm sure that a few were also from the nipple area due to firing #11 caps on #9 nipples.

The pistol did not last that long when the chamber under the rammer let loose & nearly launched the barrel from me, had lead splinters in my hand from that but I survived & learned my lesson & since I also grew up & started to pay attention to what I was doing I haven't had a chain fire in over 20 years.

Proper fitting balls/bullets & caps is the key in preventing chain fires with the lube over the projectile or wads under neath to mostly keep fouling down & maybe help too.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Glad you survived to tell the story!

One of the BP Leagues that I belong to stresses the need for wads or greese in the chambers, as well as properly capped nipples. A 12 position firing line with revolvers & single shots shooting side-by-side during a competition. Never had a chain fire on the line--We all use wads in the revolvers.

Dave

 

[Raider2000]

Glad you survived to tell the story!

One of the BP Leagues that I belong to stresses the need for wads or greese in the chambers, as well as properly capped nipples. A 12 position firing line with revolvers & single shots shooting side-by-side during a competition. Never had a chain fire on the line--We all use wads in the revolvers.

Dave

Not a chain fire but a Lead Return story.
My 3rd model Dragoon during my younger care free days "seems like I had quite a few of these" :shocked2: & a few friends with their pieces too were shooting at this pulled power pole when one of my balls struck a spike in the pole & the ball returned punching a hole into the bed of my truck behind us.
Needless to say the Pole won that day. :nono:

 

[J.D.]

I had more than my share of chain fires as a young and dumb kid. I had an old FIE brass frame 36 cal pistol that was loaded with no lube on top of the balls. The chambers were also loaded with as much powder as possible, for maximum effect.

I had as many as five chambers fire at once. Fortunately, the bottom chamber never fired.

I later learned the reason percussion revolvers are so slim, in front of the cylinder, is to allow the errant ball to pass without damage to the revolver. Good thing too. :redface:

 

[Jim/OH]

Hi Richard,

Well, I have never had it happen to me (yet), not have I witnessed it with anyone else. :hmm: But from the posts, it apparently does happen. I don't think it is a severe problem if you load carefully as you should, and have the right caps for your nipples. These are things you should be doing anyway. So, just be careful, and I don't think you will have a problem. :thumbsup:
See ya, Jim/OH :hatsoff:

 

[mazo kid]

Proper fitting balls/bullets & caps is the key in preventing chain fires with the lube over the projectile or wads under neath to mostly keep fouling down & maybe help too.

As far as I'm concerned, that pretty much sums it up! In over 35 years, I have only heard of one instance in our club with a chain fire. Pay strict attention to what you're doing, NO distraction, etc. and you should be fine.

 

[Dances With Coyotes]

Never had no chain fires here..Always use a good fitting ball that will shave off a ring on top of a lubed wad...May be overkill but I always take a Q-Tip and lather on a little bore butter over each well seated ball.....Then pinch each cap to make sure it is on the nipple real tight.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

It was common enough in the civil war that many soldiers issued the Colt Root Model 1855 five shot .56 musket hated them, as more than a few got some fingers blown off. As I understand it, inherently so dangerous they were eventually taken out of service.

 

[renovato]

Crossfires aren't very common, but they do happen. It seems that they can happen from either end of the chamber.

Grease isn't much of a barrier to hot gasses under pressure, but a tight fitting ball is. The front of the chamber is pretty easy to seal if the ball shaves a ring when seating. The rear is a little harder to seal. Loose caps can allow hot gas to get past and into the nipple. I like the caps to fit tight enough to require seating on the nipple with some pressure. I use a short piece of dowel. If I buy a gun that the caps don't seat tight on, I replace the nipples.

When I first started shooting revolvers, I didn't know much about them and my loading procedure was a lot more sloppy than it is today. Still, I never had a crossfire. I attribute this more to dumb luck than anything else. On the other hand, I used to shoot a cheapo pepperbox replica and it crossfired regularly. Considering the length of the barrels, I assume they were crossfiring from the rear. Shooting a "full auto" black powder pistol was part of the thrill. Hey, I was 13-14 at the time! :rotf:

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I have seen a couple of chain fires. They are certainly attention getters. In low light conditions they are spectacular. It didn't happen to me, and I don't know what was done or not done during the loading process. My guess would be either an undersized ball, a void in the ball allowing hot gases to get around the edge of the ball while seated in the chamber, or no top lube for the undersized ball.
I have only seen one chamber detonate alongside the the barrel, and not several chambers at the times of the chain firing. Thank goodness nobody was hurt.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

a snug fitting cap on nipple is required and a shaveing off the ball/slug in the chamber. a felt/fiber wad (I make my own) and/or grease seal is cheap insurance
check out the photo of a Colt fired at dusk to see the flash from the cap busting and the flame from the chamber - should convince any revolver shooter of the hazard potential. (that's my left-handed nephew BTW, not me)

 

[rebel727]

I had hundreds of them when I was 12 with a 58 Remington. They didn't stop till I figured out to put a drop of oil on the front of the balls. Still have the gun 39 years later and it's my most accurate bp revolver.

 

[crockett]

You might want to search the archives on this topic as we had a really long talk on it a while back. As I recall almost all the chain firings started at the beginning of a shooting session. We thought that maybe the nipples had grease on them and that caused them to fall off; then,a lick of flame went in from the nipple end. One fellow put a loaded cylinder in a vise and quickly passed a propane torch from a distance and that was enough to fire uncapped but loaded chambers.
There was some thought that a lot of lubes were poor and ran out or burnt off after a shot or two however this wouldn't account for the first cylinder of the day being disproportionally the problem. We decided that a good procedure at the start of the shooting session would be to fire caps on the nipples prior to loading the gun to burn off any excess oil or grease and to be sure the caps fit. There is a practice of squeezing over sized caps to fit a nipple but this was thought a bad practice- the cap ought to be seated without such squeezing and it should stay on the nipple and not fall off from recoil. Balls moving forward in chambers was another area of potential chain firing.

 

[mingo]

Had a few over the years.
Not a real traumatic event in terms of danger, but it will get your attention and that of everybody in sight. The balls will plop down a few feet in front of you.
Never, ever, hold in front of a CB wheelgun, though.

I think tight balls are a good solution.
I use grease most of the time and never a wad in my life.

I have a 1860 Army I have fired for years.

The only chainfires were with balls that did not fit real tight in the cylinder.

Grease is a good idea, but not entirely necessary in my experience.

 

[mykeal]

When I visualize a “chain fire”, I think of the pistol shooting one chamber and then going to the next, to the next, etc., thus the name “chain fire”, is the correct?

The term is used to describe an event in which one or more of the chambers not in battery are fired as a result of hot plasma from the fired chamber leaking into it and igniting the powder. It does not necessarily indicate the out of batter chambers are fired in sequence, although that could theoretically happen. I think it's more likely the out of battery chambers fire simultaneously, or very nearly so. Also, not all the out of battery chambers need to fire; it can be as few as one.

How often does a chain fire happen and what is the real probability of it happening.. I asked several shooters if they had it happen or knew someone who had and the answer was no.

I would think the probability of it happening seems very remote.

Chain fires are indeed very unusual. They require hot plasma (pure energy) somehow find it's way into a loaded chamber with enough heat energy to ignite the powder. How such plasma moves from one place to another, and how much energy it retains during that trip is very much a matter of many unpredictable variables lining up in the proper sequence, including having a path for it to follow.

I've personally seen two incidents in 30+ years; it has never happened to me. I've never heard of anyone being seriously injured by a chain fire, although it can't be a pleasant experience. I have heard of minor damage to the gun.

 

[Coot]

I have fired thousands of rounds from various '51 Colt Navy replicas and have never had a chainfire. As others have mentioned, a tight ball (lead ring shaved off in loading), the use of wads or grease (I have used at various points, Crisco, white lithium grease and Bore Butter - they all worked fine) and, tight fitting caps. Whenever I had a new revolver to shoot, I would try several brands/sizes of caps to get a good fit for that gun. Then test fire 6-8 caps on the gun with all nipples capped but only one loaded chamber to be sure the caps were staying put with recoil.
A little care should mean few if any problems.

 

[kevthebassman]

When I visualize a “chain fire”, I think of the pistol shooting one chamber and then going to the next, to the next, etc., thus the name “chain fire”, is the correct?

The term is used to describe an event in which one or more of the chambers not in battery are fired as a result of hot plasma from the fired chamber leaking into it and igniting the powder. It does not necessarily indicate the out of batter chambers are fired in sequence, although that could theoretically happen. I think it's more likely the out of battery chambers fire simultaneously, or very nearly so. Also, not all the out of battery chambers need to fire; it can be as few as one.

How often does a chain fire happen and what is the real probability of it happening.. I asked several shooters if they had it happen or knew someone who had and the answer was no.

I would think the probability of it happening seems very remote.

Chain fires are indeed very unusual. They require hot plasma (pure energy) somehow find it's way into a loaded chamber with enough heat energy to ignite the powder. How such plasma moves from one place to another, and how much energy it retains during that trip is very much a matter of many unpredictable variables lining up in the proper sequence, including having a path for it to follow.

I've personally seen two incidents in 30+ years; it has never happened to me. I've never heard of anyone being seriously injured by a chain fire, although it can't be a pleasant experience. I have heard of minor damage to the gun.

Not to nitpick, (Well ok, I'm nit-picking. So sue me. :surrender: ) but if your BP revolver was producing plasma, it would be quite remarkable. Hot gasses are what cause chain-fires. Plasma is created in stars and nuclear bombs and Tesla coils and fluorescent lights.