Double barrel flintlock?

[mikeoosting]

I've been looking into getting a flintlock for grouse, pheasant and partridge. It would be my first venture into gun ownership (right now I have a bow) and a way for me to avoid taking another damn hunting safety course :haha: (here in Ontario, you need an H1 class outdoors card to hunt with a firearm and I only have an H2, which is good for bows, crossbows and flintlocks).

Initially I was considering a .32 rifle, but, on another thread a lot of folks directed me towards a 20 gauge smoothbore.

In that case I'm really interested in a double barrel, but all I've been able to come across is this: http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/MDBF.shtml I'm suspicious of the quality, and others seem to be agreeing with me.

I just came across this: http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/english_fowlers_locks/(570).htm The Rifle Shoppe carries all the parts (minus the barrel). Total comes out to $582 for the complete set, which is not bad (though I will have to get a barrel custom made). I've contacted the Colerain Barrel Company to try and get a quote for a custom barrel but haven't heard back from them yet. That quote will either make or break this idea.

If I do go that route, I'm a complete novice to muzzleloaders and even guns in general, let alone building guns. With all the parts, are there any gunsmiths I could take it to, just to assemble it properly? Just how difficult is it to assemble these?

On top of that, if anyone else has seen a double barrel flintlock smoothbore, preferably in 20 gauge, that would be helpful :haha:

 

[tallbear]

If you can get them the Rifle Shoppe parts are quality parts.As to getting it made I would contact Mike Brooks who posts here.His website is here Link Mike has a way with these English guns and is very reasonably priced.These are not kits but parts sets and require a builder with experience.If the cost of the barrels is going to break this project though, they will be less than the labor to get a quality finished gun.

Mitch

 

[Rifleman1776]

Your quest is laudabel. But, IMHO, your goal is not the way to go.
I'll admit, I am nearly alone in my dislike for double barrel shotguns. Especially those that have choked bores.
I had one in percussion. For safety reasons, one must decap/deprime the unfired barrel after every shot. Then you must seat, or re-seat, the charge in the unfired barrel as they bump loose. When that is completed you may then safely reload the fired barrel. After which you must cap or prime both locks. A big, time consuming, annoying hassle as I see it.
With a single barrel fowler/shotgun, you shoot and reload. Faster, safer, less muss and fuss.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[mikeoosting]

Your quest is laudabel. But, IMHO, your goal is not the way to go.
I'll admit, I am nearly alone in my dislike for double barrel shotguns. Especially those that have choked bores.
I had one in percussion. For safety reasons, one must decap/deprime the unfired barrel after every shot. Then you must seat, or re-seat, the charge in the unfired barrel as they bump loose. When that is completed you may then safely reload the fired barrel. After which you must cap or prime both locks. A big, time consuming, annoying hassle as I see it.
With a single barrel fowler/shotgun, you shoot and reload. Faster, safer, less muss and fuss.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

I was considering using the method describes here to roll paper shots http://www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com/articles/makingmuzzleloadingshotcartridges which would solve the problem of the bullet becoming unseated. If the only reason you would have to deprime the unfired side is to reseat the bullet, then, using paper shots would mean that a double barrel would be worth it I'd think.

 

[Robby]

I bought a pair of barrels from Ed Rayl and joined them myself to make a flint double from them. Somewhere along the line I heard that now he will not only make the barrels, but will 'join' them too. I can't find his address and phone number right now, I'll see what I can find.
Robby

 

[mikeoosting]

If you can get them the Rifle Shoppe parts are quality parts.As to getting it made I would contact Mike Brooks who posts here.His website is here Link Mike has a way with these English guns and is very reasonably priced.These are not kits but parts sets and require a builder with experience.If the cost of the barrels is going to break this project though, they will be less than the labor to get a quality finished gun.

http://fowlingguns.com/services.html EEP! I mean, I realize this is time consuming and requires skill but this is pretty much killing my hopes right here.

"In the white, $900.00. Plus the cost of the kit.
Finished, $1100.00. Plus the cost of the kit."

Can someone explain what "in the white" is suppose to mean, though?

I'm still considering it as an option, but, I suppose for a finished product I'd be looking at around $2000 :shake:

I might just go with a TVM Virginia, even though it's single barrel it's a nice gun.

 

[mikeoosting]

If he could do that, at a reasonable price, that would be amazing.

 

[tallbear]

Mike
"In the white" means that you do the wood and metal finish yourself.I would check with Mike but I suspect those prices are not for a Rifle Shop kit particuarly a side by side as they are a bit more complicated.

Comparing what Mike Brooks can make for you and a TVM gun is comparing apples to oranges.

Mitch

 

[mikeoosting]

Mike
"In the white" means that you do the wood and metal finish yourself.I would check with Mike but I suspect those prices are not for a Rifle Shop kit particuarly as side by side as they are a bit more complicated.

Comparing what Mike Brooks can make for you and a TVM gun is comparing apples to oranges.

I know, the finished product of this gun would be amazingly beautiful and I would love it and cherish it forever, but $2000 is a lot of money. A lot of money.

I'm not trying to compare, I'm thinking about settling for something lesser.

 

[Robby]

Mike, Here is the contact information.
W.E. Rayl
P.O. Box 91
Gassaway, W. Va 26624
304-364-8269
Good luck!!!
Robby

 

[mikeoosting]

Thanks a lot, I'll wait for the quote from Colerain and if that turns out unfavourably, I'll contact Ed Rayl.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I don't build doubles anymore. Too big of a pain in the neck. Ed Rayle's joined barrels with fitted plugs and standing breech are $1100.
I'd find an original. They can be had for around $2500 if you look. If you can't afford that I'd get a single barrel flint gun built, but not a virginia rifle. You'll want a fowling gun, not a smooth rifle. You'll also want a 10 or 12 bore for a dedicated fowling gun.

 

[mikeoosting]

Ed Rayle's joined barrels with fitted plugs and standing breech are $1100.

:shocked2: $600 in parts plus $1100 for a barrel plus god knows what for building the thing.

There goes that idea.

I'd find an original. They can be had for around $2500 if you look.

Would you be able to point me in the right direction as to where I'd find an original? :grin:

If you can't afford that I'd get a single barrel flint gun built, but not a virginia rifle. You'll want a fowling gun, not a smooth rifle. You'll also want a 10 or 12 bore for a dedicated fowling gun.

What's the difference between a fowling gun and a smoothbore rifle? Isn't a smoothbore rifle just a shotgun?

 

[Mike Brooks]

Would you be able to point me in the right direction as to where I'd find an original?

I get around....and end up finding them occasionally. Gun shows and such.

What's the difference between a fowling gun and a smoothbore rifle? Isn't a smoothbore rifle just a shotgun?

A fowling gun is light and lively and designed for wing shooting and only has a front sight like a shot gun. A smooth rifle is heavy and it's main purpose is shooting round ball and occasionally shot at stationary targets. Also has a front and rear sight like a rifle.

 

[mikeoosting]

Thanks for the clarification, I will keep my eye out!

 

[Herb]

Here is my friend Neill Fields with a double flintlock he built. He designed it and soldered the barrels together. I later sold him a double barreled 12 gauge shotgun from which he used the frame to make a double barreled centerfire African cartridge rifle, .404 something if I remember correctly. If you are interested, PM me for his phone number, he is my neighbor. And I have an original 12 gauge caplock double, which I will post pictures of perhaps later today. I killed two sage grouse with it, but there are so few birds I don't use it anymore.

 

[ebiggs1]

Your quest is laudabel. But, IMHO, your goal is not the way to go.
I'll admit, I am nearly alone in my dislike for double barrel shotguns. Especially those that have choked bores.
I had one in percussion. For safety reasons, one must decap/deprime the unfired barrel after every shot. Then you must seat, or re-seat, the charge in the unfired barrel as they bump loose. When that is completed you may then safely reload the fired barrel. After which you must cap or prime both locks. A big, time consuming, annoying hassle as I see it.
With a single barrel fowler/shotgun, you shoot and reload. Faster, safer, less muss and fuss.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

:shocked2: You mean you can never shoot the other barrel with out fiddling with it?
Didn't understand you comment?

 

[jdkerstetter]

The recoil of firing the first barrel can cause the load in the second barrel to shift forward or loosen. The same applies to cartridge guns and that is why it is so critical to crimp the bullets in the cases in some applications...so the bullets don't start to creep out of the cases.

Shot loads are especially prone to this if shot cards only are used over the load. A tight fitting patched round ball is less likely to move, particularly in a rifled barrel.

You have to be very mindful of this in working up your loads in a double gun.

Also, make sure nobody is standing to the left or right of you on the line when using a side by side flinter as gas exhaust to both sides depending on the barrel you're shooting. I know, seems obvious but..... :shake:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[ebiggs1]

I don't have a flintlock double but I do have percussion doubles. I have hunted with them for several years and never had such a problem. I was aware of the shot load being dislocated after firing the first barrel so you need to make sure you address that issue before using the gun.
If loaded properly I don't think it to be an issue.
Why would any one use a double if you could never fire the second barrel.

We even shoot trap with ours.

 

[mikeoosting]

It's strange how common the percussion double barrels are, and yet how uncommon and expensive double barrel flinters are.