Do I Want A Brass Frame?

[dubshooter]

Hello all. I've recently got my Remington New Army with 5.5" barrel, and now (of course), I"m getting the itch for a Colt Model. I really like shorter barrel revolvers, although not sure if they're consistant with the time period, I just like the looks of them and how theyhandle.

That being said, I've got my eye on the Pietta 1851 Colt Confederate Navy in .44 at cabelas, but it's a breass frame. The reason my eye came to that was the price and the shorter barrel.

1851

But I've also noticed the 1861 Sheriffs revolver in .36 and the 1862 Police revolver. I don't know anything about the difference between the 1851, 1861 and 1862 models, besides about $80. And I'm not sure the big difference between brass and steel frame, besides the stories of brass frames stretching from heavy loads.

I'm also not sure if it's better to branch out from .44 right away and get a .36 cal revolver, because that would just be more molds and punches to buy to make my round balls and wads.

Are there any suggestions? I like to learn as much as I can about my firearms before I buy them, and obsess a little, and drive my wife crazy before I actually buy it. Then when I get it, I can show her all the things I had talked about the few months before I bought it, and pretend she is actually listening :grin:

 

[TFoley]

Hello all. I've recently got my Remington New Army with 5.5" barrel, and now (of course), I"m getting the itch for a Colt Model. I really like shorter barrel revolvers, although not sure if they're consistant with the time period, I just like the looks of them and how theyhandle.

That being said, I've got my eye on the Pietta 1851 Colt Confederate Navy in .44 at cabelas, but it's a breass frame. The reason my eye came to that was the price and the shorter barrel.

1851

But I've also noticed the 1861 Sheriffs revolver in .36 and the 1862 Police revolver. I don't know anything about the difference between the 1851, 1861 and 1862 models, besides about $80. And I'm not sure the big difference between brass and steel frame, besides the stories of brass frames stretching from heavy loads.

I'm also not sure if it's better to branch out from .44 right away and get a .36 cal revolver, because that would just be more molds and punches to buy to make my round balls and wads.

Are there any suggestions? I like to learn as much as I can about my firearms before I buy them, and obsess a little, and drive my wife crazy before I actually buy it. Then when I get it, I can show her all the things I had talked about the few months before I bought it, and pretend she is actually listening :grin:

Mornin' and welcome. With regard to brass-framed percussion revolvers shooting BP or the [ahem] subs, the general consensus is that although there are rumours with a certain degree of truthful content, that they stretch over time, the facts remain that so long as you stick to sensible loads, preferably of the Holy Black, it will last longer than you will.

There is evidence on these pages that shooting extensively with loads in the upper/maximum levels of possibility WILL have a deleterious effect on the relatively soft frame, actually the arbor pin, but as I noted, and many have before me, you would have to do a LOT of shooting in a modern-manufactured firearm before it became something to worry about.

I don't have a brass-framed gun, but I know a man who has. On March 2nd 1986, he and I went to a gun-dealer in North London and collected our revolvers. Mine was and still is, a Ruger Old Army, his was a cheap Armi Sam Marco brass-framed .36. Two weeks ago we were still shooting them both.

If you like the look of brass, go for it. Living in the land of the RKBA, you can get yourself a steel-framed one as well at the same time - tell them I said so.

Shoot them both sensibly, and then report back here in 2023. :grin:

Best

tac

 

[swathdiver]

I don't know anything about the difference between the 1851, 1861 and 1862 models, besides about $80.

If you like it, buy it.

The '61 Navy has a round barrel and creeping loading lever compared to the '51 Navy.

The Pietta '62 is just a short barreled '61 Navy. It's not authentic but a nice shooter.

The Uberti and old ASM '62 Pocket Police revolvers are based on the Colt Pocket Model frame, they're 5-shot and much smaller. They too have the round barrel and creeping loading lever.

 

[Poor Private]

I have one of those .44 cal brass framed, short barreled 1851, and so do several freinds of mine. We all do civil war events and sometimes take them out shooting blanks. We live fire them also. I bought mine 2nd hand at a gun show about 10 years ago. It is my wifes favorite BP gun to shoot. It has the big bang of a .44, while having the grips of a 51(for smaller hands) and she like the looks (and so do I) of a brass frame. Of the 15 or so BP pistols I own about 5are brass framed. One of my favorite is the Spiller & Burr it has the frame of a Remington style, it is brass for theat nice look, and the grip fits nicely in my wifes smaller hands. Though it is .36 caliber. Mine has browned barrel, and cylinder and I have let the brass get that nice brownish patina. Great looking gun.

 

[Don]

The only real disadvantage to a short barreled brass framed revolver is the loss of bullet velocity. The short barrel will mean a loss of velocity and then the reduced loads needed to maintain the life of the brass frame will also reduce velocity. If its just a plinker then velocity is a moot point.

Don

 

[Eljay]

As long as it's a range gun and you don't mind sticking to light loads they're great. Those ahistoric brass .44 '51s are often a screaming deal at Cabelas and as noted above there are some cool niche models like the Spiller & Burr to get too.

I think they make a bad first cap and ball revolver but since you already have one you can load heavy if so tempted I don't see why you shouldn't have a couple of brass ones in there.

 

[Coot]

The Colt 1862 pocket models - navy and police - are five shot .36s and are on a smaller frame than the 1851 and 1861 six shot .36s. I suggest holding one before purchase if you have large hands. I do not have real big hands but much prefer the larger grip of the earlier models. All are fun to shoot.

 

[JMiller]

If you asked the question, the answer is yes. I have one of the full sized '51s, they feel solid enough to, as posted, hold up to moderate loads. And you cannot beat the pricem.

The Cabelas Pietta 1862 police is a nice revolver as well, not correct, it has a larger frame than the original, and a 6 shot cylinder instead of a 5, but it does have a bright, decorative case hardened finish...nicer than the other models. The Uberti is HC. However, if you ask if you need one of those too, that answer is also yes.

 

[dubshooter]

I tried to do some searching on a "creeping loading lever", but just see that the "newer" model colts had them. Can you expand on that? Is it a perk, or just a change in style?

I guess there are two questions then... Do I like the looks of the brass, and do I want a gun NOW, or save up a few more bucks and get the steel. Heck, I'll probably end up with all of them anyways.... :shocked2:

 

[bpd303]

I have a brass frame .44 Remington Navy by FIE since 1962. Lord only knows how many rounds have been fired through that old beast. Never have had any problems with it.

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I have a Pietta 1851 Confederate in NOT correct .44 cal. It’s a fun revolver to shoot and if you keep your loads to where the manual suggest it will last a very long time.

Should you just get a steel frame revolver? That’s like asking do I want my cake or ice cream first. If you get the brass frame revolver you will want the steel frame. If you get the steel frame one you will wish you also had a brass frame one like the confederates had.

My son got me mine for Christmas so I did not have to choose.

If you want original here is what Colt made.

The COLT 1851 Navy is in .36 cal only. It has a six sided barrel. It was carried by many gun fighters in the west. Wild Bill Hickok is probably the most famously know person to of carried one. He made it famous by shooting a man dead at 75 yards with one shot right in the heart. That was on the Springfield, Mo square.

The COLT 1860 Army is a round barrel revolver in .44 cal. I believe the handle is a little bigger and it is what was given to Army soldiers. It’s a fun revolver but not as popular as the 1851 in most places.

The COLT 1861 Navy is a round barrel revolver in .36 cal. Lots of people feel it’s the best looking of all the revolvers and it is very liked.

Anytime it is called a Navy that means it is .36 cal

Anytime it is called Army that means it is .44 cal. That is how COLT meant it to be.

Now the 1851 Confederate Navy in .44 cal that you are looking at is NOT history correct and there is no such thing as a Navy in .44cal.
Aftermarket makers started doing that because somebody wanted a look of a Navy revolver but wanted a revolver in .44cal.

The brass framed revolvers that the Confederates did make was in .36 cal.

They are all very fun to shoot. I suggest you get something soon and go enjoy.

If you need to know more just look stuff up on the computer and feel free to ask any questions on here that you want.

I have seen the short barreled 1851 Confederate revolvers also at Cabelas and will get one someday. Be sure to check out the Bargain room at Cabela’s because they also have discounted Cap & Ball revolvers in there.

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

It seams to me that if you want the best revolver of all of them then that would be the 1861 Navy in correct .36 cal.

Once you notice the lines of the revolver and how they are supose to flow I fell the .36 cal is most eye catching. I do not like the hump of the .44 cylinder.

To start off on the right foot I would suggest the 1851 or 1861 in .36 cal and a steel frame. Once you get that I feel your wants would be satisfied in general. And I feel that no matter what you get you will not be satisfied until you get the 1851 or 1861 in .36 cal.

The lines of these is just too awesome.

 

[D Sanders]

I'm not a big fan of brass frame revolvers but many of our members are. I only own steel frame guns because I like to hammer heavy charges from my guns. I understand that's a no-no with brass. I know me, I will want to shoot heavy charges out a brass frame and I think over time I will have problems. There were many civil war era brass framed revolvers that served very well and lasted through a lot rougher service than I can imagine. To be safe, Just stay with regular BP and light to moderate charges and I'm sure it will last into the next generation. Enjoy, It's a great extension of our sport/hobby. With a little more time and convincing, maybe I will own a brass framed revolver also. :idunno:

HH 60

 

[hanshi]

Just me, but I never liked brass framed revolvers. I much prefer steel and the added strength it entails. I must say, however, that I'd not turn down a good deal on a brass frame gun.

 

[bpd303]

My C&B revolvers:
'51 Colt .36 Navy brass frame
'58 Remington .44 brass frame
'58 Remington .36 steel frame
Love em all, couldn't say which is my favorite. I have a Rogers & Spencer on the way and I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.
My earlier post said the Remington was a Navy (that's what FIE called it)but technically it's an Army model.
:youcrazy:

 

[cynthialee]

I have had a number of BP revolvers over the years but I always come back to the 1851 in the not HC/PC .44 caliber.
For looks I prefer my brass frame. If I was looking to put hot loads down range I would prefer the steel frame.

At 20-25 grains of powder you are puting plenty of power down range for most needs. Which is conveiniantly below the 27 grain 3F max charge you should put down one of these brass framed colt clones.

 

[dickydalton]

Sorry (not really) it's dirty, I was out shooting today. Yes brass frames can be damaged but if they are it's the shooter's fault. Look at the impressions in the brass that are where the cylinder is radiused for the nipples.

I still shoot this Pietta because the caps are still far away from hitting the recoil shield and the arbor is tight. I also have two more of these that I have never loaded hot and they are fine. This one has way too many balls through the barrel for my oldtimer's to count.

 

[M. De Land]

I'd sweat in a hardened steel bushing where it's imprinting and bet she would last just as long as a steel frame.
Is this what is meant by brass frame stretching, the imprinting?
One I worked over for a friend years ago had the bolt window wallowed out from fanning and the creeper pointed rack on the loading lever had to be welded up and re-cut but the shield was fine. MD

 

[CaptainKirk]

To answer the unanswered question:
The creeping loading lever has three tiny "teeth" on it that fit into corresponding holes in the barrel that guide the lever along in it's travel, as opposed to the standard Navy loose, floppy lever which will drop all the way down and lock up a cylinder if the catch fails.
As far as brassers go, I agree with the others; if you load them light and treat 'em right, they will last longer than you will. Every brasser I've seen or owner with collateral damage has been due to zealous overloading to steel-frame loads. Brassers are easy to polish (using Flitz) and if you want to do any metal work, brass is much easier to work with than steel using standard hand tools like files and sandpaper.
If a brasser is on your menu, don't be afraid to try one.

 

[Rick Son]

I just got this one..I like the steel becuase i can put conversion cylinders in them.