DIY pattern for WBTS-era rifle slings??

[satx78247]

Friends,

I've looked & cannot find a pattern for the 1.25" wide sling for the Remington (the so-called "ZOUAVE") .58 caliber Contract rifled-musket.

IF you have the pattern PLEASE post a photo.

Note: I'm NOT at all sure where this information request belongs, so "move it" if this is the incorrect place.

yours, satx

 

[hawkeye2]

The sling is the same basic pattern as the '61/'63 Springfield and would be the same sling as the '41 Mississippi. These slings are available from Civil War suttlers at reasonable prices.

 

[Artificer]

OK, it has been about 30 years since I made these, so I had to look up a few things. Hopefully Hawkeye2 will help jog my memory, if I miss something.

I don't recall there ever being a DIY pattern for these slings, but perhaps the following info will help you out.

First question I have is do you want an exact copy of a period sling? The reason I ask is because you have to buy or make the brass sling hook, if you do. I used to buy original excavated ones when I made my repro slings, but I doubt those are available anymore or the price would be too high. Looking around at the repro hooks, this appears to be the closest copy to the originals, but it is a little different: http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=HS15
here is the other one normally sold and it will work, but I prefer the one above: http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=HS15A

The original hooks were held on the leather by Brass rivets and burrs (washers), but it seems most of the repro hooks are made to use brass nails and they don't include the burr (washer). I used to be able to walk into the GREAT old fashioned Fredericksburg Hardware store and buy the correct size rivets and burrs, but that store and the even slightly better Pleasant's Hardware in Richmond have closed down. So if you want to use them, you would have to find them elsewhere and I'm sorry I don't remember the correct size. Here is a photo of a copper rivet and burr to show you what I mean, though the originals were Brass: http://www.outfitterssupply.com/images/WLF900.jpg

Now as to the description of the sling. I'm sure you would prefer it out of the Confederate Ordnance Manual. :wink:

GUN-SLING (russet bag leather) - Width 1.25 inch; length, 46 inches; 1 standing and 1 sliding loop; hook (brass), fastened to the sling with 2 brass rivets No. 15 wire.

The standing loop is the one sewn to the end of the sling. Many if not most repro slings made today are 48 inches long. However, you have to start with a longer piece of leather to make the sewn folded over end that holds the hook in place and is tapered down towards where the hook comes out. That folded over end may be seen in a zoom close up in the following link. (Oh, please also note the good sewing of the standing loop. Some repro slings have horrible looking staples instead of being sewn or the sewing is, at best, amateurish or downright sloppy.)
http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L12&cat=52

The Ordnance Specs don't say how wide the loops were, but I think I made them 3/4" wide. You can make them wider if you wish. I have seen original loops that were butt sewn or sewn with a curved needle flat end to flat end OR others were sewn similar to REAL M1903 slings with the leather ends folded over each other and sewn through both folds. BTW, I know it is not exactly by the book, but I have found I prefer at least one more sliding loop on my slings - one to hold the hook in place and one closer to the front sling swivel.

OK, I am going to end this post because we have been having intermittent power outages and I don't want to have to type this post again. More coming in Part II.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Part II

Now as to the leather itself.

First of all, no matter what the Ordnance Manual says, I found you HAVE to actually measure the REPRO sling swivels on your Repro gun, because the repro swivels often don't match the original swivels as to the interior width. I remember I made mine a tiny bit less than 1.25 inch wide, but I don't remember the exact width.

When I buy leather, I have always been blessed to have a Tandy store nearby where I could actually FEEL the thickness to see if it was what I wanted, so I am going to have some difficulty explaining the thickness and I hope you will bear with me. Some times I would find 4-5 oz. leather that was towards the thicker size and sometimes I bought 5-7 oz. leather that was on the thinner size. You also want the temper of the leather to be good and that means you want the leather to come from the back of the hide RATHER than the belly. The belly leather will stretch and warp weirdly in usage as a gun sling.

If you are only going to buy one piece of leather, then most Tandy Stores often have Blank Belt Strips and you want one that is at least 5 feet long or preferably longer, so you can make the loops out of the strip. I have NO qualms about feeling each individual strap to find the one with the best temper for a gun sling and I suggest you do that instead of grabbing just the top one off the pile. Be careful as many of those strips are made of belly leather. A few times over the years at different stores, the owner/operator would actually custom cut a blank strip for me and that really is nice when you can get it.

The originals were issued as "russet leather" which meant the natural colour of the leather then oiled. Some slings were also blackened. So take your pick.

Now after this long explanation, I have to say I never liked the original U.S. Pattern Sling. So what I always did was make a reproduction of a British Brown Bess Sling with the buckle that fit my musket/s and blackened them. I also made two sliding loops for them. The fact these slings are made from two pieces of leather and is more solid at holding the adjustments made them my first choice. Here is a picture of one with no sliding loops on it. http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L12&cat=52

Gus

 

[satx78247]

1st, I want to "try my hand" at making my own sling, rather than buying one from a sutler. - That seems like a simple enough project for a rank beginner at leatherwork to do.
(I've made a couple of western belts over the last 25 years but nothing more than that.)

We have a large Tandy store in SA, so buying leather won't be hard & the manager is a really nice, helpful gent BUT hasn't even SEEN an original sling for a period rifled musket.

My "more or less" Remington "Zouave contract musket" isn't an exact copy of anything, inasmuch as it's got a shorter barrel than anything (as far as I know) that Remington actually made.

The only information on the "musketoon" is: "Civil War Centennial 1861-65" on the top of the barrel. The lock-plate is stamped with "CS" & a "star in a circle" & above what is evidently the serial number (1862). - NO proof marks anywhere & NO maker's name either.
(My GUESS is that it is supposed to be a "sort of replica" of the muskets that Remington sold "abroad" & that were then brought into the CSA through the blockade.)

Note: The Ft Fisher Museum has the rusted remains of 2 Remington muskets on display, that were dug up years ago, so at least some such "smuggled in muskets" were used by CS troops at Ft Fisher during "The Late Unpleasantness". - Neither musket has any sign of the Remington name/TM but only a serial number.
("Can you say, 'knowingly trading with the enemy', children? - SURE you can.")

THANKS for posting Parts I & II.- I'll likely buy the rivets/leather in SA & order the hook from the place that you linked to for me.

yours, satx

 

[Artificer]

Since your musket has a shorter barrel, I don't know if the front sling swivel is closer to the lock than the standard barrel length M1863 Remington? If so, you might not need as long of a sling. Of course if you go with the original length, it would be shorter than many repro's are made today, anyway.

A couple more thoughts on making the sling.

The holes for the hooks are not round. If you look at the zoom close-up in the following link, you can see they are elongated by using the same hole punch to make two holes very close together to make the holes oblong. This makes it easier to put the hook through the holes for length adjustment. I imagine they used an oblong punch to make the original holes, but these are not readily available today. http://www.ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L12&cat=52

When you make the folded over and tapered end of the sling that holds the hook, I suggest wetting that end and folding the leather before you punch the hole for the hook. That way you can get the hole centered in the fold of the leather. Also, when you fold leather like that, the width at the fold sometimes widens out a bit right at the fold. By wetting and folding the end and allowing it to dry before cutting the taper, this won't be a problem.

Best wishes on making your sling and you are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Darn it, thought of something else I missed.

To make the sling loops tight so they work the best, I have found it best to wet the leather for the loop and wrap it around two thicknesses of the strap, though the strap leather is kept dry. Then when the loop dries a bit, I cut it to length and sew it as needed. Hope this is clear.

Gus

 

[satx78247]

Yet even MORE great advice!!!

THANKS AGAIN.
(Especially for the advice on making keepers, as I've not ever even tried to make a "keeper".)

yours, satx

 

[Artificer]

The first couple of loops I made years ago, I just measured them and made them and they did not hold tightly.

Then I noticed that some 03 sling keepers had rectangular shapes inside the loops with fairly sharp corners and fit nice and snug. That gave me the idea. I made a couple forms out of wood, but finally hit on the idea of just wetting them and wrapping them tightly around two thicknesses of the leather I was using and it worked great. So I have been doing it that way for almost four decades. I do it that way for sliding loops for belts, shot pouches, slings, etc.

Glad to pass some tips along.


Gus

 

[satx78247]

THANKS AGAIN, Partner.

yours, satx