Cylinder Replacement on a 51 Navy Replica

[CaptainRoundball]

Good afternoon,
I have a replica 1851 Navy Colt (Appears to be an EIG replica) that I have fired a few dozen times now and have noticed a major accuracy issue that seems to result from the cylinder's manufacturing. It appears as though not all of the chambers align properly with the barrel when they are in the firing position. This theory is partially confirmed by noticing that the hammer will tend to strike to the right of the cap with varying degrees on the six chambers. Note that the cylinder does lock into position but that position does not line the chamber up with the barrel. I will attach photographs which will hopefully illustrate the issue.

It would seem to me that the easiest solution to this issue would be to replace the cylinder with one that is manufactured with more precision (Uberti, etc.). Does anyone know if this is an option that will work with these EIG replicas? Or if anyone has drawings or dimensions of the cylinders for more mainstream replicas I would also appreciate any links to that data as well which would let me compare the cylinders.

Thank you!

 

[wb78963]

Cap, you may be putting expensive lipstick on a pig. If that is an example of quality control it might make it a wall hanger and get a brand new Pietta 1851 Navy in .36 caliber. My experience is Pietta has better quality that Uberti. Uberti may be nicer looking but quality over looks every timee. And my gun rack shows that.
At least that is my opinion.
Bunk

 

[kje54]

Good afternoon,
I have a replica 1851 Navy Colt (Appears to be an EIG replica) that I have fired a few dozen times now and have noticed a major accuracy issue that seems to result from the cylinder's manufacturing. It appears as though not all of the chambers align properly with the barrel when they are in the firing position. This theory is partially confirmed by noticing that the hammer will tend to strike to the right of the cap with varying degrees on the six chambers. Note that the cylinder does lock into position but that position does not line the chamber up with the barrel. I will attach photographs which will hopefully illustrate the issue.

View attachment 40926View attachment 40927

It would seem to me that the easiest solution to this issue would be to replace the cylinder with one that is manufactured with more precision (Uberti, etc.). Does anyone know if this is an option that will work with these EIG replicas? Or if anyone has drawings or dimensions of the cylinders for more mainstream replicas I would also appreciate any links to that data as well which would let me compare the cylinders.

Thank you!

Not sure if a Pietta or Uberti cylinder will work with that one and like wb said you'd be putting lipstick on a pig. You could try it, new cylinders run around $100 and if it doesn't work as long as return shipping is cheap or free you're still ahead. Personally I'd wall hang it and get a new one. I do disagree with wb on Uburti's quality, they're as good as Pietta these days, they've come a long way from when they first started.

 

[ppg1949]

CaptRB, a late welcome to the forum. I’m wondering if the hand that moves the cylinder into place is not quite long enough to do the job. But I’m not sure how long one should be? If you give me few hours, I’ll measure one of mine and get back to you. In any case a hand would be cheaper than a cylinder and easier to fit.

 

[ppg1949]

CapRB, well as Murphy’s law would have it, my battery on my digital mic is dead and none to be found. But measuring with the old fashioned way, it appears to be .99 to one inch from the flat top to the round bottom. Not the point that extends forward but the flat top. Maybe some other member will jump in with a more precise measurement. I hope this helps. Thanks

 

[kje54]

CapRB, well as Murphy’s law would have it, my battery on my digital mic is dead and none to be found. But measuring with the old fashioned way, it appears to be .99 to one inch from the flat top to the round bottom. Not the point that extends forward but the flat top. Maybe some other member will jump in with a more precise measurement. I hope this helps. Thanks

A kite on a string with a key and pray for a thunderstorm........

 

[hawkeye2]

Measuring the hand that way won't tell you anything, the dimension that matters is from the center of the hole to the top. Even knowing that is meaningless as each hand has to be hand fitted to the individual revolver. While the locking notches in the cylinder may be off you have far more issues than that. I don't know if all EIGs were from Armi San Marco whose quality is questionable but the ones I have were. I would suggest you begin with a general tune up and then look at the lockup after. You may need to modify the bolt and/or its opening in the frame. Unless you do the work yourself (you could get a valuable education) it is not worth it. Even shootable the gun doesn't have much value and unless it has sentimental value I wouldn't fool with it. I'm sorry if that's now what you want to hear but I don't recommend throwing new parts at it to try to cure its problems.

 

[CaptainRoundball]

Thank you all for your advice, like you're all saying, if the QC on the cylinder is that poor, chances are that the sights aren't even lined up. Despite this, I think I will try a new cylinder, at least to see if it fits properly. Then it'll just become a mantle piece if the cylinder doesn't fit or help it shoot better. Additionally, considering that this firearm was no cost to me, I'm not too worried about value.

Thank you all again!

 

[CaptainRoundball]

CaptRB, a late welcome to the forum. I’m wondering if the hand that moves the cylinder into place is not quite long enough to do the job. But I’m not sure how long one should be? If you give me few hours, I’ll measure one of mine and get back to you. In any case a hand would be cheaper than a cylinder and easier to fit.

Thank you! I'm just wondering that the hand may not be an issue if the cylinder locks into place. Of course I'm not a firearms engineer so I won't pretend to know everything about their inner workings.

 

[ppg1949]

hawkeye, thanks for sharing a more meaningful explanation of what to measure and where. I was hoping a member more knowledgeable of CnB revolvers would answer and you did. Thanks again

 

[SDSmlf]

Before I got too far down the road I would confirm that the bolt full seats in all the cylinder slots with the cylinder and bolt out of the gun. I have seen the cylinder slots get peened on the edges and the bolt not properly fit, yet still seem to hold the cylinder in place. If the bolt fits in all the slots I would confirm that the cylinder is fully locked up in all six positions. Are the individual chambers consistently out position the same amount each time? Next I would check to make sure that the bolt does not have excessive clearance between it and the slot in the frame. If it’s not properly located that could be your problem. Shouldn’t take but a few minutes to check above items out. No point doing a $100 plus cylinder swap in a $100 gun (if it is functioning correctly) until other possible causes are eliminated.

Different manufacturer’s cylinders typically do not interchange with each other. Diameters, lengths, spacings, etc don’t all match. For that matter, some older and current guns by the same manufacturer may not allow interchangeability.

 

[CaptainRoundball]

Before I got too far down the road I would confirm that the bolt full seats in all the cylinder slots with the cylinder and bolt out of the gun. I have seen the cylinder slots get peened on the edges and the bolt not properly fit, yet still seem to hold the cylinder in place. If the bolt fits in all the slots I would confirm that the cylinder is fully locked up in all six positions. Are the individual chambers consistently out position the same amount each time? Next I would check to make sure that the bolt does not have excessive clearance between it and the slot in the frame. If it’s not properly located that could be your problem. Shouldn’t take but a few minutes to check above items out. No point doing a $100 plus cylinder swap in a $100 gun (if it is functioning correctly) until other possible causes are eliminated.

Different manufacturer’s cylinders typically do not interchange with each other. Diameters, lengths, spacings, etc don’t all match. For that matter, some older and current guns by the same manufacturer may not allow interchangeability.

Hello SDS,
The bolt seems to fit into and lock the cylinder in all six positions. What's interesting is that when locked in the top position, each chamber ends up in a different position relative to the hammer and the barrel. This is to say that if cylinder 1 is offset slightly counterclockwise by 0.125 in, cylinder 4 is offset by 0.063. (note: these dimensions are hypothetical, I do not have a way to accurately measure these offsets). I hope this helps clear up what is going on with this firearm.

 

[SDSmlf]

Hello SDS,
The bolt seems to fit into and lock the cylinder in all six positions. What's interesting is that when locked in the top position, each chamber ends up in a different position relative to the hammer and the barrel. This is to say that if cylinder 1 is offset slightly counterclockwise by 0.125 in, cylinder 4 is offset by 0.063. (note: these dimensions are hypothetical, I do not have a way to accurately measure these offsets). I hope this helps clear up what is going on with this firearm.

Does ‘cylinder 1’ always come back to the same offset? And cylinder 2, 3, 4 and 5? Do they all consistently repeat? Do things change if you cock the gun slow vs fast?

 

[CaptainRoundball]

Does ‘cylinder 1’ always come back to the same offset? And cylinder 2, 3, 4 and 5? Do they all consistently repeat? Do things change if you cock the gun slow vs fast?

These offsets are consistent no matter the speed. The hammer always strikes slightly to the right of where it ideally would. This offset is most at 'cylinder 1' and least at 'cylinder 4'. The cylinders between these sort of split the difference between 1 and 4. 3 and 5 are slightly more than cylinder 4 and 2 and 6 are slightly more than that.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Are the ratchet notches on the back of the cylinder worn to the point the hand doesn’t push the cylinder far enough? Is there play in the cylinder when the hand is locked? I would be afraid a new cylinder may not answer your problem. Do you know anyone else with an 1851 where you could swap in a cylinder from their gun to see if it solves the problem? Either a 36 or 44 cylinder might help with diagnosis as long as you don’t load and fire it.

 

[CaptainRoundball]

Are the ratchet notches on the back of the cylinder worn to the point the hand doesn’t push the cylinder far enough? Is there play in the cylinder when the hand is locked? I would be afraid a new cylinder may not answer your problem. Do you know anyone else with an 1851 where you could swap in a cylinder from their gun to see if it solves the problem? Either a 36 or 44 cylinder might help with diagnosis as long as you don’t load and fire it.

Hi Jake, unfortunately I do not know anyone else with an 1851, be nice if I did though. And there seems to be total of about 0.07 inches of 'slop' in the rotation of the cylinder with the hammer at full cock. This measurement is the same for all six positions. Additionally, the ratchet notches on the back of the cylinder seem to be unworn. It is hard to say about the state of the hand itself but the fact that it extends enough to engage the bolt and lock the cylinder leads me to believe that it is okay.

 

[hawkeye2]

There are no standards as to arbor diameter, cylinder length, cylinder diameter, locking notch width or location nor anything else from one manufacturer to the next or from one year to the next within the same manufacturer. There is a very real likelihood that a cylinder you buy today will not fit that gun but all this has been said before. If you got it shooting the total value of the gun would be likely less than the cost of the cylinder

 

[SDSmlf]

Almost wonder if your current cylinder is the correct one?

 

[Kansas Jake]

Another test. If you have a dowel or ramrod that is close to bore diameter, cock the unloaded piece and run the ramrod down the bore. Does it easily go into the cylinder or catch on the face of the cylinder? If it slides right in, the miss alignment may not be much. That being the case I would probably shoot it as is and save money for a nicer revolver.

 

[CaptainRoundball]

Its hard to say about the correctness of the cylinder, but some stamps on the cylinder to match ones found elsewhere on the firearm. It's also becoming clear that it might be the best option to just deal with it and pick up another one for the price of a new cylinder.