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CVA Hawken crown damage

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Necrodude

32 Cal
Joined
Apr 5, 2019
Messages
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Location
MD
I'm new to black powder firearms. I have a Pietta Colt 1851 and wanted to get a rifle of some sort. I found a CVA Hawken rifle on gunbroker that looked like it was in good condition. I recieved it yesterday but the crown looks horrible. Is this normal for this rifle?
20190418_110431.jpg
 
Looks kind of....terrible. You'll receive lots of advice on how to recrown it. Can't really tell, but it looks like it's not too deep. We have the technology...we can fix it!!!
 
Well I contacted the person I bought it from and they said I could get a refund if I wanted. It looks a lot worse in person, its hard to get a good picture of it but I took one that shows it better.
20190418_155224.jpg
 
Try it out first. It looks like someone took a small file to it. It also looks easily fixed if necessary with a simple dremmel tool and grinder ball.
But try it first.
 
I don't know, shooting it would be like trying out a motorcycle that has loose handlebars. Might handle great........!! Or a guitar with a warped neck...might sound great! Or maybe a sailboat with a hole in the bottom. I'd fix the hole in the bottom before I went out for a sail. Looks very bad...but not deep. Very fixable. Yes, grinder ball with lots of oil, very low speed. Then some fine emery paper.

Then find the person who did it, and beat them within an inch of their life with the ram-rod. Then again, you can't really hold drunk monkeys accountable.
 
If it shoots one inch groups like that, Brit will eat his hat. Or I'll eat his hat...or something like that.
 
I've been into firearms for most of my life, but I've never seen a crown that bad looking. Like I said before, I'm pretty new to black powder shooting. So I just didn't know if it was normal for this rifle or not. I understand that it can be fixed but when I bought it, the ad said like new condition. It also had some other issues too. So I don't think that it's acceptable in the condition that it's in.
 
I'm new to black powder firearms. I have a Pietta Colt 1851 and wanted to get a rifle of some sort. I found a CVA Hawken rifle on gunbroker that looked like it was in good condition. I recieved it yesterday but the crown looks horrible. Is this normal for this rifle?View attachment 8526
No. That is not normal for a muzzleloading guns crown.

It looks like someone decided to "crown" the muzzle and they used a multi-fluted countersink mounted in an electric drill. These countersinks will usually "chatter" when this is done and it will leave a surface just like the one on your gun.

If you decide to fix it yourself, you can remove the chatter marks by using some "wet/dry" black silicone carbide sandpaper and something spherical to back the paper up with. One thing that comes to mind for something spherical that would be about the right size is a file handle. The kind of wooden handle that people put on the tang of their file to provide a safe way to handle and use a file.

These file handles come in several sizes so I would recommend buying one of the smaller ones which has a diameter maybe 1/4" to 3/8" larger than the bore diameter.
The closer it is to the size of your bore it is, the better it will work.
Ace hardware, Home Depot, Lowes and other similar stores have these and they don' cost much.

Follow this link if you don't know what I'm talking about:

https://www.zoro.com/nicholson-file-handle-wood-4-78-in-l-21526n/i/G2804907/

Start off using a 60 or 80 grit sandpaper, tearing it into a bunch of 1" X 1" squares. Use the spherical end to push the sandpaper down into the mouth of the bore and then rotate the sandpaper and handle back and forth. After a few twists, move the sandpaper a bit to the side and do it again. When all of the sanding grit is worn off of the piece of sandpaper, get a new one and start sanding it again.

Because there is quite a lot of material that needs to come off, it will take some work but I think there is enough sandpaper in one sheet to get rid of almost all of the marks.
When the marks seem to be gone, switch to a 120 grit paper and repeat the operation to smooth out the surface.

Before you are finished you will then need to break or round off all of the sharp edges left on the rifling grooves and the place where the bore meets the newly formed crown.
I recommend using 180 or 220 grit wet/dry paper for this and using your thumb instead of the hard file handle to push it down into the muzzle.
The softer thumb will allow the paper to conform to the shape of the surfaces and round off the edges.
When the edges are no longer sharp, you will have something that will never tear a cloth patch when you are loading. :)

If you don't like the bare steel color of the reworked muzzle you can use a instant gun bluing to darken the surface. I like Birchwood Casey "Perma Blue". The "Super Blue" is made for modern alloy steel barrels and usually doesn't work as well on the low carbon steels our barrels are made from.
 
Wouldn't it work well to start off with a stone-ball, until most of the damage was gone, and then go to paper and file handles to finish up? Just thinking that starting with sand paper would be the long way around. Sounds like he's going for a refund though. What a hassle, someone needs to be beat with the ramrod.
 
A couple of more questions. Is the gun in good condition otherwise? i.e rifling, finish, lock etc. If so, would the seller make an adjustment on the price if you decide to keep it. And last, do you feel comfortable cleaning up the crown yourself? Those are all factors to consider and it may shoot fine as is.
 
The condition of the rest of the gun is ok but it's definently not like new, which the seller had as the condition. It had rust in the bore, one of the holes for the wood screw in the butt plate was stripped out, had alot more cosmetic problems then you could see in the pictures and what was described. If it wasn't for the crown being messed up I would keep it. I just don't have the time these days to mess around with it and I shouldn't have to.
 
The condition of the rest of the gun is ok but it's definently not like new, which the seller had as the condition. It had rust in the bore, one of the holes for the wood screw in the butt plate was stripped out, had alot more cosmetic problems then you could see in the pictures and what was described. If it wasn't for the crown being messed up I would keep it. I just don't have the time these days to mess around with it and I shouldn't have to.
Should be repairable, but sounds like a return unless it is a heck of a deal. Depends on other ‘issues’. Rust in the bore can be the deal killer. Reluctant to put a ‘number’ on it, even though seller has offered a refund. See TC Hawkens in good condition not selling at $225/$250 price point and CVA Hawkens in good condition valued for even less. Suggest you watch the classified on this forum. There is a TC Hawken for sale right now for $200 with a pitted barrel that in all likelihood is better than the seller is describing.

Good luck.
 
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The crown looks like there was tool chatter when the crown was cut. I've seen and worked on a few center fire rifles that had crowns that looked like that and shot good groups. I would shoot several groups while trying different patches, charge weights, etc. before recutting the crown.

I've recut dozens of muzzle crowns on rifle barrels and there is an art to using the crown cutting tool. If you use a cutter you can end up with the same chatter marks if you don't properly support the barrel. If the rifle won't shoot, I would consider refinishing the crown with lapping compound before cutting.

If you are uncomfortable with working on the muzzle crown, you might want to return the rifle for a refund.
 
That muzzle definitely needs fixing. I have crowned several with a countersink tool but did the job HAND HELD, no power drill. Afterwards, using some of the suggestions here it can be cleaned up with fine wet/dry paper or other techniques. You might take it back to the seller and tell him you are returning for a refund OR a large (e.g. $100.00) cash rebate on the purchase price. Good luck.
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

I ended up deciding to return it for a refund. I just don't have the tools or the time to do that type of fix. I wasn't looking for a perfect condition rifle but I atleast wanted one with a good barrel.
 
Well, bad luck, hope it does not shy you away from another seller. (who was the seller?) I recently bought a parts gun in order to restore my great-granddad's shotgun, (an unmentionable) and the seller went totally out of her way to photograph and describe every nick, dent, scratch, crack, and all. And that was just a parts gun. I have bought three guns online, and they were all also as described, and my 1861 was actually better than described. So they ain't all bad. Better luck next time.
 
I don't know that the seller needs to be named. The seller has agreed to take the firearm back with a refund. Sounds like they are a stand up person.
 
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