Cut patches

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi Guys
A friend of mine has a GP Rifle .Its percussion and in .50 cal. It has less than 100 shots fired from it. So far accuracy has been not so good. The patches show cutting . Not from a sharp edge at the muzzle but, slits like the lands have sharp edges or raised burs cutting into the patch. What would be a effective and safe way to knock the sharp edges down.
Other than the slits the patches don't show any other bad signs. They look pretty good. Several patch types have been used so far ,.018 pillow ticking and .015 pocket drill. Also store bought cotton patches. I have a identical barrel I fitting to one of my old guns so this could happen to me too.
Thanks n.h.schmidt

 

[OTHERN]

Try wrapping 0000 steel wool as tightly as possible around your jag and polishing the bbl for about one song on the radio. This has been useful for me on some of my barrels.

Othern

 

[Zonie]

Some barrels take at least two songs.

The thing about running steel wool wrapped around a jag up and down the bore is, it won't wear out your barrel.
It is about the same hardness as the barrel steel so it will dull up the sharp rifling edges but that is about all it will do.

Some folks use abrasives like valve grinding compound but these are much harder than the steel barrel and they will cause wear so if you use them do so sparingly.

Long ago, I started using the steel wool method on every new barrel I've used and I have yet to have a cut patch from them after this treatment.

Well....maybe I should clarify that.
I've never had a Good patch cut by those barrels.

Years ago, before I started making my own patches out of pillow ticking, I bought some pre-cut, pre-lubricated patches.
These things had been sitting on the shelf for who knows how long and the oils that were used to "pre-lube" them reduced the materials strength to the point that they would rip, tare and blow out in well worn barrels with moderate powder loads.

 

[deanscamaro]

Hey, Zonie, you say you make your own patches out of ticking. I just bought a yard of Wal Mart ticking today. How do you cut your ticking.....square or round? I have been considering just leaving it square, side measurements the same as the diameter of the commercial round patches for a 50 caliber (my rifle size) and also considered making a round cutter (Dixie ones are too expensive)from something. Any recommendations?
:bow:

 

[Otter]

I ain't Zonie, but I'll chime in anyhow. Cut them square and I don't think you'll notice any decline in accuracy, cut them round if you wish. I decided it was just as easy and also gave me a round patch by carrying my patching in strips and cutting them at the barrel as I loaded. YMMV

 

[renovato]

I can attest to the steel wool trick also. I've had to use it a couple times on guns with sharp lands. It takes a little effort, but it works and it doesn't hurt the barrel any.

 

[Swampman]

I cut mine square. I have been for 25 years. It saves time, and the patch seperates from the ball a few feet out of the muzzle.

 

[n.h.schmidt]

Thanks guys It looks like the steel wool is the way to go.I will pass it on and give it a try for myself too. n.h.schmidt

 

[bwhoffman]

Hey, Zonie, you say you make your own patches out of ticking. I just bought a yard of Wal Mart ticking today. How do you cut your ticking.....square or round? I have been considering just leaving it square, side measurements the same as the diameter of the commercial round patches for a 50 caliber (my rifle size) and also considered making a round cutter (Dixie ones are too expensive)from something. Any recommendations?
:bow:

Deano....
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=150

I cut 8 to 12 layers at a time. dont do the drill press thing, very dangerous!

the 1 5/16 also shoots well in my .40, but is a tad shy for a .54
working on making another one out of a 1 3/8 saw, should work for the .54's

went thru my stuff the other night, got close to 2000 patches cut! takes me about 5 minutes to cut ~ 180 patches. been supplying some friends for a couple of years now!

 

[rabbit03]

Zonie you're too much (two songs) :rotf: :rotf:

Good post and good advice too, also hello Ron how is it going??

I ran into the same problem the other day with my 1 1/2 50 cal Ed Rayl bench rifle barrel. Evidently the barrel has not had very many rounds through it because I was cutting patches also. The loads were not all that tough (90-100grns of 2 and 3 ffg) and the cuts appeared to be evenly spaced around the edge of the ball making it pretty clear that it was the edges of the lands that was giving me the problem. Accuracy was not what I would call too good either with a stray shot now and then in the mix.

I got some advice from a fellow shooter and he suggested that I get some of the Rubbing Compound from the automotive store and use it in conjunction with the 0000 steel wool on a jag. I did this, working the jag back and forth for about 4 or 5 songs :thumbsup: and then took it out shooting the next day. Problem solved! :thumbsup:

The patches are coming out like they should with the dark brown spot in the center of the patch and no burn through at all.

So this was how I managed to fix my problem on the 50 cal bench rifle. Put the first 5 shots in a ragged hole at 50 yds. :hatsoff: Thanks JIM.

rabbit03

 

[deanscamaro]

Okay, Brett Sr, If I understand your method, you find a hole saw, 1 5/16" diameter and grind it down on a bench grinder to make a sharp, round cutter. Then you hand-cut (using hand pressure and not a drill press) a number of layers of ticking to come up with patches of 1 3/16" diameter, which would be good for my 50 caliber pistol and rifle. As a newbie, have I picked up on your process?

 

[Zonie]

Well, I'll be the first to say it could be dangerous to use a power tool but I use the toothless hole saw method cutting thru about 6-9 layers of folded cloth. The toothless saw is mounted in my drill press and the material is stapled to a piece of plywood.

Making a hole saw toothless is hazardous and the saws are not cheap either.
If you have a lot of time on your hands, using one of those cloth cutters they sell at cloth stores or even a razor knife would be less expensive and the square patches will work just a good as the round ones.

 

[tg]

You can rip the material into strips and cut or tear them into "kinda" square patches and they work as well most any other way, I suspect a triangle shaped patch would work as long as the ball was covered where it meets the bore.

 

[bwhoffman]

Okay, Brett Sr, If I understand your method, you find a hole saw, 1 5/16" diameter and grind it down on a bench grinder to make a sharp, round cutter. Then you hand-cut (using hand pressure and not a drill press) a number of layers of ticking to come up with patches of 1 3/16" diameter, which would be good for my 50 caliber pistol and rifle. As a newbie, have I picked up on your process?

you pretty much got it! on the cutting, I rotate (turn backand forth) 1/4 to1/3 turn back and forth ona piece of pine or a good cutting board,wood or plastic.
to sharpen it, I chucked up the hole saw without the pilot bit in the cordless and ran it against the belt sander at a real minimal angle and polished it off with a whetstone,again while in the drill. It is a razor!
The hole saws I use are pretty used up by others and from me cutting some fire brick, which does a nice job of removing the teeth!
As others have said, square shoots justas good, done that, have also muzzle cut from strips (still do for the trade gun) and most of these guys been doing it longer that me! I just like to kill time before work and they look good!
the 1 5/16 hole saw nets out apatch that is 1 1/8, which shoots excellent in my .50s.

 

[deanscamaro]

I've got the process. I have a sharpening station, motor driven to a shaft with 4 wheels on it that I built for keeping my woodturning tools sharp and honed and it will work fine for getting the cutting tool down to a good edge. Thanks for the explanation.
:bow:

 

[Vaino]

My .54 "Hawken" would cut patches when over 80 grs. 2f was used so I wrapped green "Scotchbrite" around the jag and gave it 24 strokes and the patch cutting was eliminated. Judging from the amount of debris after only 24 strokes, the green "Scotchbrite" surely does "age" a bbl. The only warning when using this stuff....don't come out of the bbl until done or the muzzle can be "bell mouthed". The accuracy of the bbl after using the "Scotchbrite is excellent. Years ago I bought a patch cutter from Forster and it has cut thousands of patches w/ only one sharpening. Wonder if it's still being sold. A "cheapie" and slower device to cut round patches can be made out of thin sheet metal which is cut into a slight oval {needed for a round patch} and bent 180 degrees the long way leaving a 1/32" gap. The ticking is folded over and the "template" is pushed on, held tightly and scissors are used to cut around the "template". In a pinch this has worked well for larger patches that my Forster doesn't accommodate.....Fred

 

[n.h.schmidt]

Thanks to you all about the fixes for sharp lands .I will give it try if my friend will let me.
I too make patches using a toothless hole saw. Once the teeth are ground off and the edge sanded or ground to a edge,I sharpen to a razor edge with stones. You do not have to use a drill press. A hand held battery drill works fine and is safer too. If you get the edge smooth and sharp enough,it will not catch on the cloth. You can cut a great many patches in a shot time this way. n.h.schmidt